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Regulating NCC200 front end, and other tips

teddy_pardo

Trade: Teddy Pardo
I finally did it (don't know why I waited all this time...), I added regulators to the NCC200 front end. It's easy to do and the improvement is really noticeable. My NCC is powered with 30V AC which gives about 41V DC, the dropout on the NCC diode + 220R is about 2.5V so it's possible to replace them with a 317/337 using the same power supply. Just remove the diode and resistor one each side and use 3 leg regulators instead. The input to the regulators can be taken from the PCB (where the diode was originally connected) so is the ground (use the "star" point of the front end).

I have used 118R and 3K4 resistors to set the regulators to 37.4V, and used just one 10uF 50V tantalum capacitor in parallel to the 3K4 resistor. I hided the regulators below the NCC PCB, and since the wires are very short there's no need for output capacitor (the NCC already has a capacitor+bypass capacitor), I didn't use an input capacitor either.

For the V+ side I've used LT1086, and for the V- LM337AT. Don't worry about the voltage limits, these regulators are only limited by the dropout not by the voltage they regulate. In this case it's only about 2.5V and they actually remain cold.

As for the idle current settings, you need to add about 12mA which is the additional current of the regulator, so set it to 50-52 mA instead of the original 38-40mA

The NCCs are awesome even without any additional regulators, but this improvement is really worthwhile. I wonder why Les didn't do it in the first place. Les?


Some other tips for those who build NCCs:

1. Follow Les recommendations one-by-one wrt components!!!
I built my NCC initially using the part list published here on PFM. This list is using some "economic" parts. When I replaced the capacitors by polystyrene (from LCR) / silver mica, and the output resistors by Maggit non inductive the difference was big. Don't save on these components!

2. Power supply
For the power supply I tried first 22,000uF Kendeil which were good, then I tried to build a CAP6 clone using BC 10,000uF capacitors (I think it was 054 series) but it wasn't as good, at last I replaced the last capacitor in the CAP6 clone by a 22,000uF Kendeil (10mF - 10uH - 10mF - 10uH - 22mF). That's the best combination! Try it if you have some room in your case.

Teddy
 
Hi teddy

How did you make or manage to work out whats needed to wind up the 10uH coils?

Cheers

mark
 
2mtrs (approx) of .8mm enamalled wire wound round a 8 -10mm drill 25mm long 3 deep = 10uH or use a inductance meter (passive component analyser) The one from Peak electronic design Ltd is very good model LCR40. Farnell and RS stock them or you can buy direct from Peak.

Graham
 
Hi Graham

Thanks for that. Just to clarify...we wind the first layer for an inch, then we stop and wind over the second coil layer back over the first, and finally do it a 3rd time?

So 3 layers? Correct?

Will it "hold together" on its on? Or do we heat shrink it?

Cheers

mark

P.S. I like "The Implementor". Way groovy :)
 
Teddy, glad to hear you are pleased with the results.


Follow Les recommendations one-by-one wrt components!!!
I built my NCC initially using the part list published here on PFM. This list is using some "economic" parts. When I replaced the capacitors by polystyrene (from LCR) / silver mica, and the output resistors by Maggit non inductive the difference was big. Don't save on these components!


I am in the process of putting a BOM together for my NCC200's and have been using the list posted here too.

I'd like to compare components, do you have either the Les recommend list or documented the BOM that you used?

Thanks

Nick
 
These are the parts that I've changed from the original list that was published on PFM. The numbers on the left are the Farnell codes. Note also that the original list contains many non ROHS components (mainly resistors) that are no longer available and have to be replaced by new ROHS ones. Let me know if you want the full list.

551491 4 RESISTOR, 20W TO220 0R22; MPR20H0R22J £3.48 £13.92

9519998 2 CAPACITOR, 47PF 160V; 2.5% £1.06 £2.12

9520716 4 CAPACITOR, 220PF 630V; 1% £0.72 £2.88

9520791 4 CAPACITOR, 470PF 630V; 1% £0.74 £2.96

867846 2 CAPACITOR, 39PF 500V; £1.22 £2.44

Teddy
 
markzb said:
Will it "hold together" on its on? Or do we heat shrink it?

I used shrink sleeve between each of the layers, it makes it easier to wound and in addition it holds the wire so that it will not vibrate (I think...)
 
markzb said:
Hi Graham

Thanks for that. Just to clarify...we wind the first layer for an inch, then we stop and wind over the second coil layer back over the first, and finally do it a 3rd time?

So 3 layers? Correct?

Will it "hold together" on its on? Or do we heat shrink it?

Cheers

mark

P.S. I like "The Implementor". Way groovy :)

I wind on a 10mm drill bit at slow speed in a battery drill and when it gets to the end (marked with a white blob of paint) 'up and over' back along the coil.............untill three layers....then slip on the shrink and heat (minding fingers). This takes practice but is worth it.......

DSCN3240.JPG


DSCN3239.JPG


DSCN3243.JPG


Works a treat........

Graham
 
Tip No 3875:- Now take out the 47/39pF in the feedback loop and discard it. It makes for a cleaner sound. The NCC200s have local feedback around the long tail pair, so there's no requirement for this extra complication.

Well done Teddy, nice work.
 
Chris Allen has updated that sprewadsheet of parts I did all that time ago - I must get it uploaded. Teddy - I assume you're happy for me to add your amended parts numbers too?
 
RichardH said:
Chris Allen has updated that sprewadsheet of parts I did all that time ago - I must get it uploaded. Teddy - I assume you're happy for me to add your amended parts numbers too?

Sure, let me know if you need the list of resistors too. BTW, I think that there was a mistake in one of the resistors in your original list, the 27R IIRC.

Teddy
 
Here are some pictures:

Top view, if you think it's scary wait until you see my preamp... :)

IMG_6396.jpg


A little closer:

IMG_6397.jpg


A closeup on the board, note:
1. the Maggit resistors
2. The coil is in in shrink sleeve
3. There are no diodes in the D4 position (the 1086/337 regulators are below the PCB, you can't see them...)
4. I'm using 3.3uF SMR on the input, a little deviation from the author's recommendation ;) I had them at home, tried them, and they sound good (I didn't compare them to the BC128 yet)

IMG_6398.jpg


Another one

IMG_6399.jpg


From behind (note the beautiful WBT sockets)

IMG_6400.jpg


The box closed

IMG_6402.jpg


Front view

IMG_6407.jpg


I had a friend who came to listen to it today after I added the regulators and the CLCLC power supply, he confirmed too that the sound is now much better than before, better sound-stage, more details, and voices are more natural.

Teddy
 
Smashing work Teddy. LesW kindly sent me a pair of the boards to try and seeing the finished article reminds me I really must...
 
Time to announce the MiniCap module which is a smaller version than the Cap6 and is designed for, amongst other things, just such a project. It contains 4 diodes and 6 caps decoupled by inductors and the PCB footprint is 123 X 63.

It will be available at the end of the month.
 
Great stuff, Teddy.

Top view, if you think it's scary wait until you see my preamp...

Go on then!

LesW kindly sent me a pair of the boards to try and seeing the finished article reminds me I really must...

Martin, I know the DPA is brilliant kit, but you will be impressed by how good the NCC200's sound. Build them and marvel at the music they make :)

Mr Tibbs
 
Teddy

It looks great. Especially the copper Shielding around the toroids. Is metalwork one of your skills?

David
 


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