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"Audiophile Grade...." - WTF?

Darren said:
I can never understand two themes that regularly appear on PFM. One is marketing: I dont get the problem - if a product arouses your interest you can look a little further. If the marketing turns you off you can ignore it. We are all functioning, reasoning adults. I actually like learning about new products that I might like.
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Yup. They're all just money-grabbing bastards, not to be trusted. If it was really a labour of love, they'd give us the stuff for free, or at least the occasional donation to the petty cash.

Every manufacturer has a 'brand image,' whether deliberately created or not, even if it's 'we're actually a bit crap at this.'

Even Rega's 'no marketing' strategy is in fact a very carefully managed marketing strategy. Ma Gandy didn't have any dumb kids, at least none who went into turntable manufacturing.
 
No, and no - it's not an mutually-exclusive proposition.

(i.e. after @Alex S comment above, I'm very happily, a pfm-grade twit. Def not an Audiophile, nothing like a Reference, work in the wrong kind of Studio for that to apply; and the closest I've come to Surgical, is ripping a knuckle on some spannering a couple of days ago - chrome-vanadium forged spanners, not 316 SS, at that: double disqualification. )
 
Alex S said:
Sure but I think PFM has always been about VFM. Audiophile grade anything usually isn’t IMO.
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I don't think I'm an audiophile. Whilst I get such enjoyment with music, I also get oodles of enjoyment with building and fixing audio stuff; that's VFM for me.
 
Darren said:
... A few of us are even brave enough to admit that we love the kit almost as much as we love the music....... or is that just me? I mean..... this is a hifi forum, its not really a music forum.
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A long time ago (way before heavy duty "audiophile grade" marketing) I asked myself what mattered to me in this hobby, what it was about each issue that mattered, and how much it mattered. My final list of important "things" became:
  • music
  • sound
  • equipment
I decided that my personal priorities were in the above order. Music first by some way, as long as the sound was good enough to not detract from the music I liked, and equipment did matter but followed behind.

I refuse the "audiophile" label. Have a look at Aesop's fable about the fox using flattery to cheat the crow out of its cheese. I haven't thought again recently so things may have changed but possibly not much.

However I did observe (and still do) that others had very different priorities and maybe different things in their own lists. And that was absolutely OK.

IMHO it was worth the effort of being clear and honest with myself to not be over-influenced by audio industry marketing flattery and by cajolement from thinking I should embrace others' different priorities.
 
John Phillips said:
A long time ago (way before heavy duty "audiophile grade" marketing) I asked myself what mattered to me in this hobby, what it was about each issue that mattered, and how much it mattered. My final list of important "things" became:
  • music
  • sound
  • equipment
I decided that my personal priorities were in the above order. Music first by some way, as long as the sound was good enough to not detract from the music I liked, and equipment did matter but followed behind.

I refuse the "audiophile" label. Have a look at Aesop's fable about the fox using flattery to cheat the crow out of its cheese. I haven't thought again recently so things may have changed but possibly not much.

However I did observe (and still do) that others had very different priorities and maybe different things in their own lists. And that was absolutely OK.

IMHO it was worth the effort of being clear and honest with myself to not be over-influenced by audio industry marketing flattery and by cajolement from thinking I should embrace others' different priorities.
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Fair enough John. But for me, a little over thought. I just go with what feels good and is the most interesting.
 
Alex S said:
Sure but I think PFM has always been about VFM. Audiophile grade anything usually isn’t IMO.
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Nah.... That's not true. If I recall correctly you own and have owned some fairly serious kit than only someone fairly into audio would own. Was it all poor value?
Sure some stuff is overpriced... But that's a judgement call for the buyer.
 
I made my own interconnect cables out of some ex aerospace military grade wire someone was flogging off on Ebay 20 odd years ago. Eichmann bullet plugs on the end. Still using them. Never found a reason to change.

Does that make me an audiophile? Don't care in the slightest TBH. They sound good to me.
 
I bought a used Chuck Mangione Feels So Good album from the 70s. Right on the cover is Audiophile version. As I read through the fine print, I came to understand that this meant that they cut the record at half the speed and this results in a more detailed representation of the original sound source. Even though that was the 70s, I have modern albums that make this same claim, so it either is actually a higher quality recording OR, at the very least, they have convinced the public that it's something worth paying more for.
 
Darren said:
I can never understand two themes that regularly appear on PFM. One is marketing: I dont get the problem - if a product arouses your interest you can look a little further. If the marketing turns you off you can ignore it. We are all functioning, reasoning adults. I actually like learning about new products that I might like.
The second thing is this shyness, almost embarrassment about being an audiophile. Some of us are even in denial and run to to hide behind the 'music lover' label.
But that's not what we are is it? Beyond loving music we actively spend our spare time and income seeking out the very best sound. We do this because we know that our appreciation and musical pleasure will be enhanced by having a fantastic, realistic, stunning sound at home. Manufacturers know this too and may direct a product towards our needs. They might even label it 'audiophile'. I like that - it might be something I'm interested in.

A few of us are even brave enough to admit that we love the kit almost as much as we love the music....... or is that just me? I mean..... this is a hifi forum, it’s not really a music forum.
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I like the kit very much and derive great pleasure from selecting and listening to it but it’s function is to deliver the music. For me it’s always music first, kit second. It doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the engineering, looks and value of the kit. I just appreciate the craftsmanship that went into the music so much more. So much so it often distracts me from any audiophile pretensions. A great performance is a great performance. A great piece of music is a great piece of music, regardless of the kit. Most classical music existed way before the invention of hifi.
 
Totally agree Del,

As you say good kit just pushes your appreciation up a level and if it gets you buying music like a Junkie it's done it's job.
Hearing good kit for me is hearing separation in the mix and if you can easily hear what everyone is playing and shut your eyes it's a performance in your lounge that's what I really like.Instrument timbre and sound stage and most of all an emotional connection it's magic.

I do find the build side of equipment fascinating and how every company has their own take how it should be done.
A good example of that is Naim ( love them or hate them - I sit on the fence ) they have always used their power supply architecture
in their ranges.DNM had acrylic case work and din plugs and star earthing.
 
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Just to say, the price of Van Damme Star Quad cable has gone through the roof this past couple of years. It's still nothing like "audiophile" prices, cough cough, however, it has gone up considerably, My mate pointed out that, "You haven't had to buy any for 10 years", so that might be part of the reason it seems relatively expensive nowadays.
 
calorgas said:
By coincidence I was just looking at iphone 14 vs 14 pro specs for my daughter, and apparently the 14 pro uses "Surgical-grade stainless steel". Er, ok, great. I think.
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In case you cut yourself on it's edges?
 
tenpercenter said:
So, none of youse are audiophiles then and you’ve all got Amstrad music centres?

I was going to add “…and also envious of people considerably richer than youse….” but I won’t, because that be would crass and insensitive :)
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Anyone who is a member of an audiophile forum is an audiophile.
I don't have any audiophiles amongst my friends, and of the lot only maybe 2 or 3 own a basic hi-fi system with separates and I'm sure they don't listen from the sweet spot.

Affordability depends on one's income I suppose, whilst VFM could have something to do with the S(performance)/N(price) ratio or it may not as some will value brand-name as well as design&finish.
 
Yesterday afternoon I ended up at a demo completely by accident.
They had two systems on show, the cheapest one totalling an eye-watering £45k... Bloody hell.
 
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