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Ukraine V

PsB said:
I would hope that Navalny's positions are evolving as a result of the "special operation", but he started from fairly nationalistic positions, including some that come across as quite right wing. The fact he might have been a credible opponent to Putin does not change that.
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It was also noted that his wife was entirely mum on the Ukraine war during her acceptance speech. And being dressed to the nines as people are bombed was also criticized.
 
DimitryZ said:
Don't "both side" this please.

Generally, there is a strong tendency on the western left to equate questionable leadership we certainly have in the West to the worst excesses of world's worst dictatorships. Hence we constantly hear that Nixon=Hitler and Thatcher=Mussolini or whomever. And that we are surrounded by "Western Propaganda" which makes us as blind as the Russians.

This is wrong on multiple levels. Great majority of you born in the West don't and will never have an understanding of what it's like to live in a true dictatorship - and frankly your attempts to equate your first world political gripes with historical calamities the rest of the world experienced on a regular basis is REALLY GRATING.
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Sorry if my post was unclear. Both-siding was not intended. It's clear that the Russian regime is (and always has been) repellent and their actions in Ukraine imperialistic, inhumane and abominable. All I was trying to say was that automatic acceptance of any main stream media or internet info is unwise.
 
Hook said:
I don’t want to join your conversation with ks, but would like to try and make a small academic point or two.

I was taught that when trying to understand human behavior, there are multiple possible explanations: biological, psychological, cultural, social, political and economic. Which one of these explains our behavior best varies, but when we see lots of people acting in unison, the more powerful explanations almost always go beyond the individual. Maybe millions go similarly crazy because of a virus, or perhaps they being coerced under a dictatorship. In the end, we can probably only approach the truth about what we are seeing by weighing the contributions of multiple explanations.

As you know, institutional racism is a very real thing. Whether it was slavery in the US, or pogroms in Europe, we’ve seen throughout history how governments coerce their population into racist behavior though a combination of propaganda and violent threats. This process creates a toxic culture that lives long beyond the end of specific government coercion.

I don’t see how anyone could study the mass coercion that happened in Nazi Germany, and see it merely as a bunch of individuals simultaneously choosing racism. In this example, I strongly believe that the more powerful explanations are economic, cultural and political. I feel the same way about the toxic political culture in today’s Russia.

Apologies for the lengthy, rambling post…
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Indeed, and it's caused by a rotten regime brainwashing the population. Of course, not everyone will fall in line; there will be pockets of resistance, but history has shown us the terrible consequences of this. As the quote ascribed to Voltaire goes "those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
 
notaclue said:
Lindsey Graham is itching for World War 3...

“What would Ronald Reagan do right now? He would start shooting Russian planes down if they were threatening our assets.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/.../lindsey-graham-russia-us-drone-b2302391.html
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Turkey shut down a Russian aircraft as it flew in its airspace for a second.There was no WW3, Russia immediately stopped flying it's jets close to Turkey's borders. That was 4 years ago.

Putin is REALLY hoping that you continue being very afraid of him and lobby to give him what he wants. He is convinced that Western women and men are chickenshit scared to defend themselves, much less anyone else.

Are we?
 
DimitryZ said:
Turkey shut down a Russian aircraft as it flew in its airspace for a second.There was no WW3, Russia immediately stopped flying it's jets close to Turkey's borders. That was 4 years ago.

Putin is REALLY hoping that you continue being very afraid of him and lobby to give him what he wants. He is convinced that Western women and men are chickenshit scared to defend themselves, much less anyone else.

Are we?
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clearly some of us are, judging by some of the posts here.
 
sideshowbob said:
The Chinese can see which way the wind is blowing in the US, rhetoric in the last couple of weeks has hardened. We are increasingly at the most dangerous time for democracy since 1933.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/xi-jinping-visit-russia-vladimir-putin
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Yet only a few decades ago certain quarters were celebrating the global triumph of liberal democracy as "not just ... the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: That is, the end-point of mankind's ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government."

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002RI92EI/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

Edited for clarity
 
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sideshowbob said:
The Chinese can see which way the wind is blowing in the US, rhetoric in the last couple of weeks has hardened. We are increasingly at the most dangerous time for democracy since 1933.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/xi-jinping-visit-russia-vladimir-putin
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Quite the cast of characters on Putin's FB page: Xi, Assad, the Supreme Leader, the Mullahs (currently hosting Putin BBF Lukashenko), and left-wing favorite Ortega. Mali and Eritrea have sent friend requests.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
sideshowbob said:
The Chinese can see which way the wind is blowing in the US, rhetoric in the last couple of weeks has hardened. We are increasingly at the most dangerous time for democracy since 1933.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/xi-jinping-visit-russia-vladimir-putin
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Was being reported on BBC Today this morning that following his meeting with Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping will have a "virtual meeting" with Volodimyr Zelensky. I wish I could listen in. Xi Jinping seems to regard himself as a bit of a peacemaker following the Iran/Saudi deal brokered by the PRC.
 
PsB said:
Who's "we"?
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Well, you could as reasonably ask who the “we” were in the post I was responding to. But as the initial question was about democracy I rather assumed we were using the collective “we”, not naming individuals.

In this case Fukuyama’s book was greeted by the media with a certain enthusiasm and many news articles and interviewees talking about the triumph of liberal democracy.

Anyway, Post has been edited for clarity
 
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Fukuyama's book was controversial from the moment it came out, and criticized by many thoughtful US commentators. It certainly coincided with the peak of the US' unipolar fantasies. Seems a long time ago.
 
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