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Should I Buy These Isobariks?

Should I Buy These Isobariks?

I say no.

My best mate has a mint pair.

He’s spent a load of time and money getting them right - and drives them with a fortune’s worth of late model NAIM gear.

They have their own sound, which some enjoy.

My view is that the design is way too convoluted to deliver truly coherent and palpable replay.

The big LINNs don’t sound terrible, but less complex speaker designs with simple crossovers seem to deliver far more realistic sound, to my ears.

Just one opinion. Sorry to be a detractor, but you asked the question.
There’s no need to shout, but thanks for not mentioning spring removal.
 
F.w.i.w., I had a pair of the originals in the mid/late eighties, passive, with XLR connection and ols stands with two adjacent supports in front, powered by 250, and maybe 135s for a short while. I loved them as a wall of sound speaker in a big, tall, Victorian room. I unexpectedly needed new tweeters at some stage.

However, the tweeters didn't exactly emit finesse, though the bass was amazing and almost subterranean. I always used them with the grilles, as that was how I was told to; there sounded a bit 'raw' without. They went to my friend after I 'graduated' to ProAc R3s (John Michell's) then on the higher ProAcs. He successfully ran them in a smaller room for a few years before 'upgrading' to ProAc R3.5 (the sweet spot of the range).

I.m.o., they were amazing and almost certainly unique when they came out, and later incarnations were better, but they certainly merit the term 'curate's egg', esp. nowadays. I bought my Xerxes/Artimez/Shiraz after audition in an Essex dealer's on Briks in a tiny annex in the late 80s.
 
given that your 2 tweeters are going to cost over £300 you need to define "paltry " if they are close to £700 then I would give them a miss as you can get a good pair for under £1000.

True in the UK, though where Mike is he’ll be lucky to see another pair in his lifetime. They are crazy rare outside of the UK BADA/Haymarket flat-earth bubble. They just didn’t translate to markets where big JBL, AR, Advent, Klipsch etc were commonplace. I bet they are the first pair Mike has ever seen!
 
Yeah. Why not? They won’t kill you (unless they fall on you). If it were me I’d probably remove all the Hiquophons and put new Scanspeaks tweeters in (while you still can), about £240 all in. I’d also get new grills. I notice that these Isobariks predate the shouty mid range period so should be good.
 
I have a pair of Briks also made in the USA from the same era. Bought from Roy Hall of Concert Hall electronics. Converted them to active (a real PITA but amazing results). Now running with ICEPower Class D amps that blow away the previous Naim power amps.

Over the 25 years I've had Briks, I've blown out the tweeters and one pair of woofers. Lesson learned on the tweeters - put a really nice 4uf/100v polypropylene cap in line with the tweeter input if you do go active. This helps prevent large transients, say due to power fluctuations to your pre/power amps, from sending low frequencies to the tweeters. That's where all the energy is and tweeters just can't take it.

For the woofers, put an ohmmeter on the inputs to check impedance before you buy. Should read about 3.0 to 3.5 ohms for the two woofers in parallel. Also, press gently on the flat woofer diaphragm (in the center of the speaker) and listen for any rubbing sound. If there is any, you're in for a larger overhaul than just the tweeters.

The Briks are my reference system for doing upgrade evaluations but they are not perfect. In particular, the imaging is generally poorer than current models because of the top facing speakers. As much as the top firing speakers add spaciousness to the sound, they also reduce the sweet spot with a good central image. You have to be sitting down with your ear at the level of the tweeters to get it right. As soon as you stand up, even a little, the central image starts to dissipate. That said, the overall presentation of an active Brik system is truly awesome.
 
There are a pair in Canada that are very pricey. I love mine, the 'wall of sound' works for me, and like your situation, i bought them for not much money too. They were a bit of a mess, the grills had disintegrated and stuck to the drivers. I carefully cleaned them up, and actually replaced all of the tweeters for new, from Falcon, and they sound truly glorious.

Pre-owned — Audio Excellence
 
There are a pair in Canada that are very pricey. I love mine, the 'wall of sound' works for me, and like your situation, i bought them for not much money too. They were a bit of a mess, the grills had disintegrated and stuck to the drivers. I carefully cleaned them up, and actually replaced all of the tweeters for new, from Falcon, and they sound truly glorious.

Pre-owned — Audio Excellence
Yeah, that's the pair I'm considering. I guess "pricey" is a relative term. They're about £1100 pounds, and will require at least a set of tweeters. However, the end result will obviate my need to buy speakers that are easily 3-4x that value to attain the same satisfaction, so it's still "cheap" to me. ;)
 
Sounds like a lot of hassle to me. Maybe just buy some other speakers?
I would be OK with that, except that all the other speakers with comparable benefits are far more expensive.

Many are also relatively impractical. For example, I think the Klipsch Cornwall IV might work, but they're massive. Many other speakers need to sit far out into the room to sound their best, and that's also not an option. Briks can sound big, have good bass, sit against the wall, "cheap", and are not too big makes them a desirable option.
 
If you get them at may be worth putting the 2 "soft" tweeters on the top, they may sound fine that way.
That's one option, although that would detract from the Brik's intended presentation, and part of why they create such a sense of scale. I'm more likely to move the two good tweeters to the top, then put new tweeters in the front. One other fellow mentioned the mids are looking tired too, so they also may need doing.

At this point I'm trying to arrange to get back to Toronto to audition them. I may decide that I hate them.

BTW, there's one thing I've not seen mentioned yet, which could be a deal breaker. How are the Briks at lower volumes? Do you need to crank up the volume for them to open up?

For example, I loved the Royd Albion, but it sounded somewhat sedate and recessed at lower volumes. When you turned them up they really boogied! That's why I switched to the Royd RR3, which performed much better at all the volumes that I played them. They've never boogied like the Albion, though.
 
Regarding scale, on Saturday I auditioned the Klipsch Forte IV then the Fyne F501SP.
  • The Forte had extreme speed and that sense of scale that I'm yearning for. However, they had an odd coloration to the mids that didn't please me. These speakers are about 3-4x the value of the Briks (including repair costs). They are also larger. Perhaps the Cornwall IV would be better with the mids, but they're even larger.
  • The F501SP had a much better tonal balance, but the immediate diminishing of scale was disappointing. The price was similar to the Forte.
So I'm really starting to appreciate that "scale" factor, and I'm not willing to live without.

It's worth mentioning that it depends on the room. My little office (11x12', or 3.3x3.6m) has the Ergo IX stand-mounters, and it has no trouble creating the effect I desire. My family room about 3x the area, with a half-wall open to the kitchen, and the RR3 w/Sub sounds "small" in comparison. Even when I turn up the volume so the space is "energized", it still doesn't seem dynamic and "alive".

So I'm hoping/wondering whether the Brik can sound dynamic and big in a moderately large room, at both quiet and louder volumes.
 
BTW, there's one thing I've not seen mentioned yet, which could be a deal breaker. How are the Briks at lower volumes? Do you need to crank up the volume for them to open up?

Fine IMO, in fact I think they get worse the louder they are played. They really harden-up at volume as the B110s are only B110s.

Go listen to them. I have to admit I thought they were a lot cheaper than £1100. They are odd things. I quite enjoyed my fairly short time with them (just over a year IIRC). Mine were absolutely mint, boxed afro-finish late models with the crossovers in the stands that I bought for the equivalent of £550 back in 1997, I say equivalent as the seller wanted to downgrade so took my black Kan IIs for IIRC £220 or so, and when I sold I think I got £600 for them.

I viewed them as a ‘rite of passage’ as I’d spent much of the ‘80s quite broke but still reading Flat Response, HiFi Review propaganda so had it in my head that I really, really wanted a pair of 135s and Briks, so that’s what I did. In a crazy small London flat! I’ve heard them many times in other situations, but I’m not sure I’ve ever actually liked them. In fact being honest I think my favourite of all the flat earth speakers are still Kans. Isobariks sound like big diffuse Kans with crazy deep and rather ponderous bass. This isn’t just what I remember from my system, it is a constant across every pair I’ve heard. The bass is so deep and full, IIRC they go right down to 20Hz, and given a lot of music is just so over-EQd to sound good on small speakers it becomes overpowering. I owned Briks at a time I was right into hard techno, German trance etc and I never felt they handled an 808 or 909 kick fast enough. Tons of ‘thwack’, but often just overpowering. A lot of this will be the LP12 which can struggle with dance 12” singles as again it has a very warm balance. That said some stuff sounded superb. I had my pair when Air’s Moon Safari came out and I remember that sounded stunning, just visceral bass, but clean.

I also had issues with the integration, as I so often do with so many speakers. They never sounded as coherent and together as Kans, I was always aware of which driver was doing what and the novelty of the upwards firing drivers wore off fairly fast (I‘ve since concluded I’m a real fan of point-source speakers and mini-monitors). I’m really pleased I owned them, it me cost nothing and it was great fun (for my neighbours too), but I certainly don’t miss them. If I ever wanted another ‘80s flat earth system I’d get another pair of Kans. That said when Isobariks are working really well they do sound very like big Kans. The underlying character is very similar.

As such I don’t know what to suggest. If they are important to your audio journey, e.g. if like me 25 years ago you’d always read about them and wondered ‘what if?’, then just buy them. Opportunities such as this need to be taken and just enjoy the journey.

Taking emotion right out and baring in mind where you are I’d personally far prefer Cornwalls, big JBLs, Altecs etc, but only with a valve amp. The Avondale is exponentially more suited to Isobariks than say Klipsch, but that’s me now, not where I was 25 years ago. There is no right answer here, and doing something out of pure curiosity is a perfectly valid move. I do it all the time! File under learning.
 
Bariks can sound absolutely jaw dropping or terrible.

So much depends on quality of setup. Personally I’d delete the top firing drivers and rewire them for active operation. Then you’d have the option to drive them with an Exakt box , which is capable of amazing things.
 
Fine IMO, in fact I think they get worse the louder they are played. They really harden-up at volume as the B110s are only B110s.

Go listen to them. I have to admit I thought they were a lot cheaper than £1100. They are odd things. I quite enjoyed my fairly short time with them (just over a year IIRC). Mine were absolutely mint, boxed afro-finish late models with the crossovers in the stands that I bought for the equivalent of £550 back in 1997, I say equivalent as the seller wanted to downgrade so took my black Kan IIs for IIRC £220 or so, and when I sold I think I got £600 for them.

I viewed them as a ‘rite of passage’ as I’d spent much of the ‘80s quite broke but still reading Flat Response, HiFi Review propaganda so had it in my head that I really, really wanted a pair of 135s and Briks, so that’s what I did. In a crazy small London flat! I’ve heard them many times in other situations, but I’m not sure I’ve ever actually liked them. In fact being honest I think my favourite of all the flat earth speakers are still Kans. Isobariks sound like big diffuse Kans with crazy deep and rather ponderous bass. This isn’t just what I remember from my system, it is a constant across every pair I’ve heard. The bass is so deep and full, IIRC they go right down to 20Hz, and given a lot of music is just so over-EQd to sound good on small speakers it becomes overpowering. I owned Briks at a time I was right into hard techno, German trance etc and I never felt they handled an 808 or 909 kick fast enough. Tons of ‘thwack’, but often just overpowering. A lot of this will be the LP12 which can struggle with dance 12” singles as again it has a very warm balance. That said some stuff sounded superb. I had my pair when Air’s Moon Safari came out and I remember that sounded stunning, just visceral bass, but clean.

I also had issues with the integration, as I so often do with so many speakers. They never sounded as coherent and together as Kans, I was always aware of which driver was doing what and the novelty of the upwards firing drivers wore off fairly fast (I‘ve since concluded I’m a real fan of point-source speakers and mini-monitors). I’m really pleased I owned them, it me cost nothing and it was great fun (for my neighbours too), but I certainly don’t miss them. If I ever wanted another ‘80s flat earth system I’d get another pair of Kans. That said when Isobariks are working really well they do sound very like big Kans. The underlying character is very similar.

As such I don’t know what to suggest. If they are important to your audio journey, e.g. if like me 25 years ago you’d always read about them and wondered ‘what if?’, then just buy them. Opportunities such as this need to be taken and just enjoy the journey.

Taking emotion right out and baring in mind where you are I’d personally far prefer Cornwalls, big JBLs, Altecs etc, but only with a valve amp. The Avondale is exponentially more suited to Isobariks than say Klipsch, but that’s me now, not where I was 25 years ago. There is no right answer here, and doing something out of pure curiosity is a perfectly valid move. I do it all the time! File under learning.
Thanks for that fulsome response. I'm pleased to hear that they sound good at lower volumes. I'm not concerned about maximum volumes, as don't like ear-splitting levels.

However, I'm concerned about your comments regarding the bass. I like bass, but I want it to be somewhat "correct". When it's in the music, I want to hear it. I definitely don't want a colored presentation, or to have it be ubiquitously over-powering. I'll be listening for that potential problem when I audition them.

I also hear what you're saying about the upward firing drivers. I also appreciate the pinpoint source that you can achieve with smaller speakers (like I have in my office), which is why I've been interested in big coaxials from Tannoy and Fyne.

I often do things for curiosity's sake, and I don't mind taking a hit for that. I just don't want the hit to be too big. I'm trying to amass as much knowledge as possible, so that I don't feel that I've been cavalier. :)
 
Mike,

I nearly missed this thread..............

I find it somewhat amusing that a NAP160 would be considered capable of 'effectively' driving a pair of Isobariks. La la land if you ask me.

You can buy replacement drive units on eBay or go upmarket and buy new units from several suppliers. I note some comedians on eBay are wanting more for a pair of 'used' B110's than you can buy them from Falcon Acoustics brand new (who are just about two offer 10% discount on sales over £150 to celebrate the new web site)!

These speakers could be upgraded, as I have mine. The front B139 can be removed following the method shown in the Linn publications - patience is required.

If Isobariks are 'rare' in Canada then this will influence the price. £1100 seems a lot for a pair that needs two new tweeters and, apparently, new B110's.

I know David is a fan of removing the upward firing drivers but it isn't a course of action I would support.

I will keep saying given a very good source and decent amplification they are a hard speaker to beat.

We can take this 'off thread'.....

Regards

Richard
 
Don’t forget to budget for the phase 14 Mana, followed by ATC 50s
That's hilarious. Believe it or not, I've got a bunch of Mana from back when I was an acolyte of the Church of Naim and the Flat Earth crew. :D

My main rig is on a 5-shelf rack, with 5 Sound Stages below it. I guess that puts all the gear in the shelves at "Phase 6". On top are two Sound Frames, which means that my seldom-used Planar 3 is at "Phase 8". :eek:

I've also got a little 3 shelf Mana rack in the family room.

I was pretty sure it helped my Naim gear back in the day. I've no idea whether it's helping my current equipment, but I haven't felt the need to change it.
 
I find it somewhat amusing that a NAP160 would be considered capable of 'effectively' driving a pair of Isobariks. La la land if you ask me.

Not entirely preposterous IMO. When I sold my pair I had an enquiry from someone who asked could he bring his 160 round to try. I thought it sounded very good, I really liked it, though obviously this was at polite London flat volumes, I wasn’t in a place I could play loud. I’ve always really liked the 160, one of the best sounding Naims IMO. Assuming its not being pushed too hard I’d take it over 135s, but I suspect I’m an outlier in not liking 135s much. I far prefer the 250, just less clinical somehow.
 


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