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Post-Trump: III (decline, further tantrums, legal proceedings, book deals etc)

Not sure how many fishes watched Biden’s SOTU address last night. In summary, Biden 1 GOP 0.

Watching GOP clowns acting rudely is usually not my thing, but watching Biden give much better than he got was quite entertaining. If last night’s version of Biden is still here in two years, then I hope he runs again.

Biden spoke very clearly last night to working class Americans. He proved that he is still very energetic, and more than effective at contrasting Dem versus GOP views. He also showed excellent comedic timing, making him look both smart and likable.

The GOP response that followed was dumb and hateful. Their constant doom and gloom messaging is aging poorly, becoming more and more detached from reality.
 
Yank said:
I can't find the link now, but someone had some poll results which led to a conclusion that in a GOP Presidential primary race between Trump and DeSantis, DeSantis wins. But if it's Trump, DeSantis, and any other third candidate, Trump wins by splitting the anti-Trump vote.

My view - in a Trump vs DeSantis race, who cares? It's a narcissist who uses fascism as a tool, against an ideological fascist.
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I care. The ideological fascist is worse, he wants worse things, and has a bigger and more comprehensive vision of them.
 
What if Haley enters the GOP primary as seems likely. Can't see Trump supporters voting for her, so where does that leave DeSantis? I can't see Trump losing if there is a field of candidates, even just an additional one. His vote will hold up and the split between others will leave him in the clear. Surely the only way Trump gets beaten at that stage is a one to one?
 
I can't see Haley winning because the GOP base is too misogynist. Google found this article that suggests in a 3 way race Trump wins.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...pport-from-desantis-in-2024-gop-primary-poll/

This is good - I think DeSantis would be the toughest opponent for Biden (or the dem nominee if not Biden). Haley would struggle because of GOP misogyny, and Trump only won in 2016 because enough people thought he would pivot to the center and become more responsible after winning.

However the events of 2016 (Brexit, Trump) have shown that (to quote Yogi Berra) predictions are very difficult, especially about the future.
 
sean99 said:
I can't see Haley winning because the GOP base is too misogynist. Google found this article that suggests in a 3 way race Trump wins.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...pport-from-desantis-in-2024-gop-primary-poll/

This is good - I think DeSantis would be the toughest opponent for Biden (or the dem nominee if not Biden). Haley would struggle because of GOP misogyny, and Trump only won in 2016 because enough people thought he would pivot to the center and become more responsible after winning.

However the events of 2016 (Brexit, Trump) have shown that (to quote Yogi Berra) predictions are very difficult, especially about the future.
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It's not Haley winning that bothers me, it's the fact that by running it will effectively seal Trump as the candidate because her votes will come from Trump's opponent, whoever it was. Hence my point that the only way to stop Trump at this stage is a one to one.

Here's how I'd see it. DeSantis beats Trump. The Maga base holds DeSantis responsible for stabbing their hero in the front. Trump then eyes a run as an independent to get even and grift some more dollars. Dems win the 2024 election, regaining Congress and reataining the Senate with GOP and Maga loons split.
 
Hook said:
Not sure how many fishes watched Biden’s SOTU address last night. In summary, Biden 1 GOP 0.
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It was also quite skillful politics in terms of the forthcoming debt ceiling debate as he has now has them all screaming with rage at the very idea they might want to cut entitlements which makes their previous plan for this session problematic.

Also I LOLed at the (paraphrased) line "For some reason Marjorie Taylor Greene is dressed in the skins of 1000 dead albino chinchillas".
 
DonQuixote99 said:
I care. The ideological fascist is worse, he wants worse things, and has a bigger and more comprehensive vision of them.
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I agree he is much worse, more likely to win and won't be constantly defeated by his own comic ineptitude.
 
SteveS1 said:
It's not Haley winning that bothers me, it's the fact that by running it will effectively seal Trump as the candidate because her votes will come from Trump's opponent, whoever it was. Hence my point that the only way to stop Trump at this stage is a one to one.
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Trump winning the nomination is by far the best outcome for the US. Indeed the US, Europe, the UK and basically everyone except Trump. He is only going backwards from 2020 and it's extremely hard to see any path to victory for him. The one possible downside is the timing might mean DoJ holds off on indictments if we get too close to an election, although I think the appointment of a special prosecutor is quite possibly specifically for this eventuality.
 
I think Beau is onto something in that as long as Trump remains in contention it is good for all of us. If he goes into an all-out slugging match with DeSantis they will both sustain a lot of damage and hopefully split the fascist base and alienate non-fascist Republicans. If he loses and stands as an independent for reasons of spite, ego and grift he will take votes from the Republican Party and likely ensure a Democrat win. Really there is no downside here as far as I can see. Go Trump! \o/
 
Interesting to note that in the long run Trump, and his UK counterpart Johnson, seem likely to be the undoing of the parties they led. I doubt any left wing sleeper agent could have done as much, as thoroughly, to undermine these parties' credibility. I just hope the trajectory continues.
 
matthewr said:
Trump winning the nomination is by far the best outcome for the US. Indeed the US, Europe, the UK and basically everyone except Trump. He is only going backwards from 2020 and it's extremely hard to see any path to victory for him. The one possible downside is the timing might mean DoJ holds off on indictments if we get too close to an election, although I think the appointment of a special prosecutor is quite possibly specifically for this eventuality.
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Quite a dilemma. Do we really root for indictments to be held off because we think T***p would be the most easily defeated candidate in 2024?

I don't think I can do this. Agreed that he is stupid, and agreed that he should be the most easily defeated nominee, but any risk of him returning to power is just too much for me. I say throw the book at the orange SOB as soon as possible!

Things can change, and while the prospect of fascism is scary, what I've seen of DeSantis as a campaigner does not scare me at all. He is totally lacking in presence and charisma, and is a terrible communicator. He is the opposite of T***p in a very important way: he is boring. Yes, all the GOP crazies will love his hateful policy positions, but he isn't going to motivate anyone on a personal level. He doesn't have that in him, and never will.
 
matthewr said:
It was also quite skillful politics in terms of the forthcoming debt ceiling debate as he has now has them all screaming with rage at the very idea they might want to cut entitlements which makes their previous plan for this session problematic.

Also I LOLed at the (paraphrased) line "For some reason Marjorie Taylor Greene is dressed in the skins of 1000 dead albino chinchillas".
Click to expand...

Watched a MSNBC segment on the SOTU last night. They showed Senator Mike Lee's face when Biden said that the GOP wanted to end Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Lee looked at Biden like he was crazy, shaking his head no! Then they played a video of Lee from last year, standing in front of a table wealthy donors, saying exactly what Biden accused him of!

I know we shouldn't be shocked by lying politicians anymore, but crap like this leaves me dismayed. If that little weasel Lee had any sense of shame, he'd never show his face in public again. Funny thing is, Lee was supposed to be on the "not completely crazy" end of the MAGA spectrum. Yeah, right.
 
Hook said:
Quite a dilemma. Do we really root for indictments to be held off because we think T***p would be the most easily defeated candidate in 2024?
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I think the appointment of Smith means they will indict him unless it's literally October 2024. Also implicit in this is the idea that the GOP won't nominate him even if he has been indicted and at this point nothing would surprise me about GOP politics.

Hook said:
what I've seen of DeSantis as a campaigner does not scare me at all. He is totally lacking in presence and charisma, and is a terrible communicator.
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Agree. People like him as he looks like a politician and his policies check all the GOP talking points. But he's terrible once he opens his mouth and lacks all of Trump's charisma and a functioning sense of humour.
 
Hook said:
I know we shouldn't be shocked by lying politicians anymore, but crap like this leaves me dismayed. If that little weasel Lee had any sense of shame, he'd never show his face in public again. Funny thing is, Lee was supposed to be on the "not completely crazy" end of the MAGA spectrum. Yeah, right.
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You don't have to be all MAGA'd out to still be in the pocket of mammon.
 
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