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All purpose football thread 2022/23 Season

My earlier post said that I would let the dust settle before commenting on the 'elephant in the room' : the fog of rival fans, who have already pronounced guilt, and the mainstream media's righteousness, having celebrated record transfer windows, for years, just needed to clear a little.

The accusations are wide and varied and the timing, immediately prior to the government white paper, is interesting, given that City are the only PL supporters of an independent PL review body. Regardless, I have no idea of our innocence, or guilt, and neither does any football fan. The bias clouds the game, and it is impossible for a fair hearing in the court of internet forums and social media. I was pleased with the appointment, by City, of two of the greatest legal brains in the country, who will hopefully ensure that things proceed in a fair and just way. If we are found guilty, after a fair trial, then I have no issue with being punished. If we are found innocent, then I hope we take action against the PL, and against some of the news media, who are already conducting fan surveys on what our punishment should be, pre-supposing guilt, naturally.

Apparently, we have been charged under Rule E3 in 2011/12. Yet Rule E3 for that year says that, except for televised games, games will be played at 3pm on Saturdays. This looks suspiciously like it has been rushed through under pressure from City's rivals and the best lawyers will have an absolute field-day if the accusations are frivolous, inconsistent, and rushed, especially as the investigation is four years in the making. I suspect that the appointment of the new PL CEO will also come into question, especially given he was vetted by LFC and Manchester United only, two of the main drivers (allegedly) in the PL's action against City.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ews/premier-league-liverpool-man-utd-17729829

As a side note, it was wonderful to get back to the actual football, last night, and watch CIty's fabulous U18 performance, winning 5-0 against Fleetwood Town in the Premier League League Cup. We have some talent coming through, and may need it!
 
oldius said:
My earlier post said that I would let the dust settle before commenting on the 'elephant in the room' : the fog of rival fans, who have already pronounced guilt, and the mainstream media's righteousness, having celebrated record transfer windows, for years, just needed to clear a little.

The accusations are wide and varied and the timing, immediately prior to the government white paper, is interesting, given that City are the only PL supporters of an independent PL review body. Regardless, I have no idea of our innocence, or guilt, and neither does any football fan. The bias clouds the game, and it is impossible for a fair hearing in the court of internet forums and social media. I was pleased with the appointment, by City, of two of the greatest legal brains in the country, who will hopefully ensure that things proceed in a fair and just way. If we are found guilty, after a fair trial, then I have no issue with being punished. If we are found innocent, then I hope we take action against the PL, and against some of the news media, who are already conducting fan surveys on what our punishment should be, pre-supposing guilt, naturally.

Apparently, we have been charged under Rule E3 in 2011/12. Yet Rule E3 for that year says that, except for televised games, games will be played at 3pm on Saturdays. This looks suspiciously like it has been rushed through under pressure from City's rivals and the best lawyers will have an absolute field-day if the accusations are frivolous, inconsistent, and rushed, especially as the investigation is four years in the making. I suspect that the appointment of the new PL CEO will also come into question, especially given he was vetted by LFC and Manchester United only, two of the main drivers (allegedly) in the PL's action against City.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ews/premier-league-liverpool-man-utd-17729829

As a side note, it was wonderful to get back to the actual football, last night, and watch CIty's fabulous U18 performance, winning 5-0 against Fleetwood Town in the Premier League League Cup. We have some talent coming through, and may need it!
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I have very mixed feelings about this as I do like City as a club but this goes far beyond football. The cosy relationship the owners have with Manchester Council, the planning permission waived through for high rise towers on long leases; they are literally changing the face of Manchester.

The repercussions are far wider & deeper if found against.

If you look at the 3 most successful clubs of the last decade or so it doesn’t make pleasant reading. One funded by ‘stolen’ money, one by huge leveraged buyout & the other is a sovereign wealth fund with murky practices.

Of course the fans will be happy when they are winning but calling conspiracy when things turn.

I have a lot of sympathy with City fans as they have had many years without success & stuck with the team in the lower divisions. Not sure we could say the same about some other clubs?
 
I'm not sure City consistently refusing to co-operate with first Uefa and now the PL does them any favours.
I expect Chelsea to be in trouble regarding FFP in the not to distant future so................
 
Woodface said:
I have very mixed feelings about this as I do like City as a club but this goes far beyond football. The cosy relationship the owners have with Manchester Council, the planning permission waived through for high rise towers on long leases; they are literally changing the face of Manchester.

The repercussions are far wider & deeper if found against.

If you look at the 3 most successful clubs of the last decade or so it doesn’t make pleasant reading. One funded by ‘stolen’ money, one by huge leveraged buyout & the other is a sovereign wealth fund with murky practices.

Of course the fans will be happy when they are winning but calling conspiracy when things turn.

I have a lot of sympathy with City fans as they have had many years without success & stuck with the team in the lower divisions. Not sure we could say the same about some other clubs?
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The face of Manchester is changing, of course, though the area around City was largely brownfield, and poverty stricken, with no investment on the horizon. I don't know enough about the relationship with the council to comment further.
 
webster said:
I'm not sure City consistently refusing to co-operate with first Uefa and now the PL does them any favours.
I expect Chelsea to be in trouble regarding FFP in the not to distant future so................
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As I understand it, City's cooperation with Uefa ceased when it was clear that external bodies were getting hold of the information provided by the club. I don't know about the cooperation with the PL.
 
oldius said:
The face of Manchester is changing, of course, though the area around City was largely brownfield, and poverty stricken, with no investment on the horizon. I don't know enough about the relationship with the council to comment further.
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Significant number high rises in the city centre are being developed my the owner or company of the owner. He’s basically bought large plots of land on very favourable terms. I take your point re the immediate area around City but this goes a fair bit wider than that.

It worth doing a bit of Googling on the subject.
 
Here's an interesting thought: if City are found guilty of historic rule breaking over many seasons and punishment is points deduction, will it be retrospective for each season of guilt? Now that really is the Shit hitting the fans :)
 
cooky1257 said:
will it be retrospective for each season of guilt?
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It should be, but then what have we been watching all this time? You can’t just hit rewind on the last ten years or so...

No Aguerrrrrrrooooo, which was amazing. A Premier League winners medal for Steven Gerrard. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a Premier League-winning manager. Harry Kane has won the Carabao Cup.
 
webster said:
Still, at the very least, it's nice to see so many Liverpool fans back on here.;)
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You'll see no gloating from me just further despair as to how this country has descended into a cesspit of graft and corruption( and this may yet prove to be a further example ). I actually have some sympathy for City fans.
 
I don't.. they've enjoyed the ride on the back of sports-washing owners (most knowing full well what was going on). And now reality bites (hopefully).
I'm sure some very expensive lawyers and influencers working through government channels will try to get them off on a technicality like with they did with the EUFA charges.

Sympathy.....pah!
 
Only reality does not bite - a charge is not a verdict - but the responses exemplify exactly why a court of law is the right place for this to be played out.
 
It’s not the same as Liverpool with their saintly owners & fans. Ok the America owners are going to trouser huge sums & the new owners will be…

Imagine if it’s a questionable regime…

If we are being honest, being a football fan is like being a parent; it makes hypocrites of us all.
 
webster said:
Still, at the very least, it's nice to see so many Liverpool fans back on here.;)
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Premier League football is such a shithouse now that top lawyers drafted in to fight the FFP cases are lauded as loudly as top players and supporters know more about the net spend of their club than the youth policy.
Nothing will be done about City - well, nothing too earth shattering. If the PL prod too hard they'll likely find similar practices up and down the division and the cash cow will be butchered.
 
Fortunately, Twitter is not a court of law, and sections of emails do not make a case. In fact, it could be argued, legitimately, that the levels of publicity and speculation prevent a fair trial, and I have no doubt that this will end up in court.
 
oldius said:
Regardless, I have no idea of our innocence, or guilt, and neither does any football fan.
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That's not quite true as these are much the same charges that Citeh were already found guilty of only for the charges to be overturned on a 2-1 majority vote by CAS because the statute of limitations had expired on the charges. If they were, say, a Tory politician accused of corruption I think many would be quite happy to cast aspersions in their direction.

To be fair to Citeh they are probably no worse than a number of other clubs as the whole thing is basically a competition between dubiously sourced disgusting amounts of money for owners of various shades of unconscionable awfulness.

Nevertheless I confidently expect a tortured, expensively lawyered statement announcing their vindication in about three years time.
 
matthewr said:
That's not quite true as these are much the same charges that Citeh were already found guilty of only for the charges to be overturned on a 2-1 majority vote by CAS because the statute of limitations had expired on the charges. If they were, say, a Tory politician accused of corruption I think many would be quite happy to cast aspersions in their direction.

To be fair to Citeh they are probably no worse than a number of other clubs as the whole thing is basically a competition between dubiously sourced disgusting amounts of money for owners of various shades of unconscionable awfulness.

Nevertheless I confidently expect a tortured, expensively lawyered statement announcing their vindication in about three years time.
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The Court of Arbitration found in favour of Manchester City. The public statements and social media opinion are filled with bias and political manoeuvring, on both sides, and are no basis for argument, IMO. I hope that vindication is ours.

It is very interesting to note that a Qatari bid for United is imminent, at the same time as it is believed that they are one of two main clubs applying pressure on the PL to act against City, and one of the main opponents of the independent review panel.
 
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