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Teacher Strike

ks.234 said:
I didn’t say otherwise.
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Well I interpreted your statement that you were surprised that better educated (than you) folks were not as clever as you to be along that line. However we seem to be in violent agreement :)
 
cutting42 said:
Well I interpreted your statement that you were surprised that better educated (than you) folks were not as clever as you to be along that line. However we seem to be in violent agreement :)
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For clarity I have never said that I was more clever than anyone else.

What I did say was that it came as a shock to discover the people with a better education were not more clever than me.

A subtle but I feel an important difference.
 
Interestingly I just got my old school reports from my dads house today. Man, I really sucked at school...... Not terrible but lazy, untidy and generally underachieving my potential were the common and consistent themes all the way from middle school to secondary modern. The least said about my one year at 6th form the better.

Even doing a day release electronics HNC in the mid 80's I recall I was not a great student but sort of appreciated the only person I was impacting was me so did put some effort in. I think it was not until I reached my late 20's that I finally started treating my job as a potential career rather than just something I did each day to earn some money. Very fortunate to have a brilliant company to work for that allowed me to build that career. Not sure that attitude would exist today.
 
ks.234 said:
For clarity I have never said that I was more clever than anyone else.

What I did say was that it came as a shock to discover the people with a better education were not more clever than me.

A subtle but I feel an important difference.
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Education's a strange thing because it has a social aspect. It's not just about skills and intelligence, it's about learning how to be in life -- manners etc. That's why I think it's much harder to get on and be successful without a suitable education. It's because the people who will give you responsibility are looking for people like them -- people with the same values and way of being. And you have to be comfortable with their milieu -- you have to be able to be yourself with them.

I saw this clearly when I went to Oxford and met people from top public schools. It's about style and articulacy and attitude and background. When I taught those people I saw that the public schools had honed their minds too -- they could really write and think well, incisively and clearly and convincingly, if they needed to.
 
but what is 'better' exactly?
More expensive? Better just means that you feel they were privileged, wheras in fact, what happened was, you were either unfortunate in being sent to a shit School, or you just were a lazy ass. i wonder which?
 
Rockmeister said:
but what is 'better' exactly?
More expensive? Better just means that you feel they were privileged, wheras in fact, what happened was, you were either unfortunate in being sent to a shit School, or you just were a lazy ass. i wonder which?
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Lazy? That is the most lazy arsed ad hom yet. If you’ve got something to say, just say it.
 
mandryka said:
Education's a strange thing because it has a social aspect. It's not just about skills and intelligence, it's about learning how to be in life -- manners etc. That's why I think it's much harder to get on and be successful without a suitable education. It's because the people who will give you responsibility are looking for people like them -- people with the same values and way of being. And you have to be comfortable with their milieu -- you have to be able to be yourself with them.

I saw this clearly when I went to Oxford and met people from top public schools. It's about style and articulacy and attitude and background. When I taught those people I saw that the public schools had honed their minds too -- they could really write and think well, incisively and clearly and convincingly, if they needed to.
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On the other hand when I did go to Uni I was told that I could write very well. No bad for a lazy arse, I thought.
 
I work in a particularly challenging school. It has barely been off the bottom of the league tables since it’s opening and it is a constant challenge to keep hold of staff due to the workload and behaviour. For me, it’s my favourite type of school and I’ve been in them since the 90s.For others it’s a terminal nightmare. The reality is that workload is a major issue and continues to be. Leaders often don’t help by continually discussing capacity.What capacity? But leaders are often swamped themselves and even the most decent leaders often succumb to the pressures and move on. I’m lucky in that I am at the tail end of my career. But I feel for those whose idealism is crushed within the first few years and I wonder at the likelihood that Education will continue to run on a shoestring. Teachers should have workload looked at. They should have a rise in pay. It is pretty near to exploitation in my book.
 
Del monaco said:
I work in a particularly challenging school. It has barely been off the bottom of the league tables since it’s opening and it is a constant challenge to keep hold of staff due to the workload and behaviour. For me, it’s my favourite type of school and I’ve been in them since the 90s.For others it’s a terminal nightmare. The reality is that workload is a major issue and continues to be. Leaders often don’t help by continually discussing capacity.What capacity? But leaders are often swamped themselves and even the most decent leaders often succumb to the pressures and move on. I’m lucky in that I am at the tail end of my career. But I feel for those whose idealism is crushed within the first few years and I wonder at the likelihood that Education will continue to run on a shoestring. Teachers should have workload looked at. They should have a rise in pay. It is pretty near to exploitation in my book.
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agree with all of that, but the true reason for the decline in Education, as in Health, is that it is a deliberate policy drive by a particular ideology. Our government might say it supports Education in Health in public, but behind closed doors that despise it as a matter of gut reaction. Our government are like the racists who say the right things in public, but in the depths of their soul they hold a deep and irrational hatred.
 
ks.234 said:
agree with all of that, but the true reason for the decline in Education, as in Health, is that it is a deliberate policy drive by a particular ideology. Our government might say it supports Education in Health in public, but behind closed doors that despise it as a matter of gut reaction. Our government are like the racists who say the right things in public, but in the depths of their soul they hold a deep and irrational hatred.
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It felt better and more cared for under Labour though PFI was a blot. With Conservatives they always stem to seek to blame others rather than take responsibility themselves.
 
Del monaco said:
It felt better and more cared for under Labour though PFI was a blot. With Conservatives they always stem to seek to blame others rather than take responsibility themselves.
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Yes, I would agree. The problem is that while labour might have decent public services at heart, they subscribe to the same amoral ideology as the Tories so the end result is much the same, or worse. It is an ideology that sees government ‘borrowing’ as an evil and a debt that must be paid for by our children, which is nonsense but widely believed. To get round that Labour went in for PFI which, while it gets the ‘borrowing’ off the books, actually does leave a debt for our children.

The current Labour Party is talking about reform of the NHS, but has hinted at public private partnerships again. What we need is a different ideology that sees ‘borrowing’ for what it is, nothing more than government borrowing from itself for the purpose of creating private assets (no bad thing for pensions), not public liabilities.
 
ks.234 said:
nothing more than government borrowing from itself
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D'you mean that those increasing interest payments on gov't debt are a load of hogwash? There's me thinking that the debt was owed to global investors (which is not exactly passing the 'buck' from treasury to BoE and back).

Out of interest, there are a fair number of teachers or ex-teachers on this forum and I suspect that many or most are teachers of non academic subjects. Yes, one or two are in the science and maths area but rarely have I come across English, languages, geography and history. Just an impression, mind, and I could be way out in my observations.

I have to express my ignorance here, on how primary, secondary and tertiary education has changed over the years since I was at the chalk-face. My friend is beyond retirement but still teaching physics and maths in a college but all he does is orally belittle and criticise his own management's incompetence. However, he's now on a point two, mainly evening classes, so has less daily contact to complain about.
 
If you look at KS 2 sats results, they were improving steadily year on year until the introduction of the more demanding curriculum in 2014 - and then they started to improve again.


Del monaco said:
It felt better and more cared for under Labour though PFI was a blot. With Conservatives they always stem to seek to blame others rather than take responsibility themselves.
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It felt better under Blair because schools started to employ more teaching assistants, and PPA .
 
mandryka said:
If you look at KS 2 sats results, they were improving steadily year on year until the introduction of the more demanding curriculum in 2014 - and then they started to improve again.
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Can't see how sth steadily improving can start improving again; maybe you missed the negative bit in the middle? ;)
 
Mike Reed said:
D'you mean that those increasing interest payments on gov't debt are a load of hogwash? There's me thinking that the debt was owed to global investors (which is not exactly passing the 'buck' from treasury to BoE and back).

Out of interest, there are a fair number of teachers or ex-teachers on this forum and I suspect that many or most are teachers of non academic subjects. Yes, one or two are in the science and maths area but rarely have I come across English, languages, geography and history. Just an impression, mind, and I could be way out in my observations.

I have to express my ignorance here, on how primary, secondary and tertiary education has changed over the years since I was at the chalk-face. My friend is beyond retirement but still teaching physics and maths in a college but all he does is orally belittle and criticise his own management's incompetence. However, he's now on a point two, mainly evening classes, so has less daily contact to complain about.
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Essentially our government is a currency issuer, so it issues bonds and then pays back on those bonds from currency issuance. There is no necessary ‘debt’ for our children.

If you are genuinely interest in learning more I can post links that while they might require turning your thinking upside down and are written in plain English that even an old art teacher such as me can understand. Which I hope answers your second question too!
 
ks.234 said:
Yes, I would agree. The problem is that while labour might have decent public services at heart, they subscribe to the same amoral ideology as the Tories so the end result is much the same, or worse. It is an ideology that sees government ‘borrowing’ as an evil and a debt that must be paid for by our children, which is nonsense but widely believed. To get round that Labour went in for PFI which, while it gets the ‘borrowing’ off the books, actually does leave a debt for our children.

The current Labour Party is talking about reform of the NHS, but has hinted at public private partnerships again. What we need is a different ideology that sees ‘borrowing’ for what it is, nothing more than government borrowing from itself for the purpose of creating private assets (no bad thing for pensions), not public liabilities.
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John Major started PFI.
 
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