Small Bookshelf Speakers, Big Sound

[Columbo]

I'd owned Naim-powered ProAc Response 1Scs in the past, had a hunch that the new equivalent DB1s would work well in my room, and so far looks like I was right.

They do need serious stands though, Custom Design, or s/h original Target R3s if you can find a pair.

The ProAcs offer a lot of imaging, midrange insight and a sense of sheer drama that I've not really experienced with similar speakers.

I thought about the Neat Petites as well, but read that the ribbon was pretty directional.

The ProAcs do need a little bit of space around them - at least a foot or so from the rear wall, to taste.

Slightly confusingly, I have a memory that PMC also used to make a mini called a DB1, so watch out for that....

Thank you

How do the DB1 compare to the 1SC?

I haven't found the Neat's at all directional... the treble and upper mids, to my ears at least, are really nicely dispersed - in fact probably better than any soft dome I've had (previous two were Dali Opticon 2 Mk2 and Q Acoustic Concept 20)

 

[Rug Doc]

DSP should sort it if you have that available??!!

And take a look at PMC small monitors as suggested - powerful little buggers. The next ones up the range have tighter midbass and bizarrely image better closer to the rear wall, so these might fit the bill.

BUT. If you have DSP, you should use that to fix your problems - it’s free!!

 

[Cesare]

Genelecs - As studio monitors, wouldn't they offer a fairly neutral transparent sound? I generally stay away from studio monitors as don't like the aesthetics. I've heard a couple of pairs and they sounded a bit dry/sterile. But maybe I need to expand my horizons?

You need to expand your horizons.

Studio monitors for nearfield monitoring is basically exactly your use case, and as they are aimed at poor musicians, they are keenly priced. I do take your point about looks, they can be weird or bling-tastic. The Genelecs are definitely things you should consider, but if you don't like the looks, investigate Dynaudio, something like the Lyd models might be more your style.

Moving to active speakers in this small form factor is a revelation, assuming you can use your amp as a pre (does it have pre out?). Don't worry about balanced vs RCA, it's not important for domestic users, so you can just get a suitable lead made up and you'll be golden. You'll come well under your budget for something quite exceptional. If you want to think about subs as well, all these manufacturers have suitable subs, not going deep, but filling maybe another octave down to 30Hz or so and increasing the SPL level you can achieve.

 

[ryder]

My room is tiny, BTW. 2.3m x 3.5m

Personally I will not consider anything larger than say Proac Db1 in that space. That would rule out Response D2 and the like.

 

[Chris81]

Of course it does. If the same speaker in the same location has a rear port, it's 30cm (suppose depth of speaker) closer to the rare wall than a front port.

It doesn't the port position is not relevant for placing a speaker close to a rear wall as long as you keep the diameter of the port as the minimum distance. Otherwise speaker from Audio Note wouldn't work or speakers with a port in the bottom with a few Christian Harazim of distance through speaker feats like Audio Physic for example. Also bear in mind how long those bass sound waves are, 100Hz (upper bass!) has a wave length of 3,4m do you really thing that the 0,3m of speaker depth = port position will have such a big effect?

 

[TonyScarlett]

I have owned both the Amphion Argon 3S & the Argon 1. I would definitely give them an audition. In my room on the system I had at the time I preferred the Argon 1. They give surprisingly little away to the 3S in bass terms & have a much sweeter midrange. Also unfussy about placement despite the rear port.

TS

 

[Alex S]

I expanded my horizons, partly on the back of this review: https://www.stereophile.com/content/genelec-g-three-active-loudspeaker
Apart from a bit of cable nonsense I agree with the reviewer.

 

[hifinutt]

I have owned both the Amphion Argon 3S & the Argon 1. I would definitely give them an audition. In my room on the system I had at the time I preferred the Argon 1. They give surprisingly little away to the 3S in bass terms & have a much sweeter midrange. Also unfussy about placement despite the rear port.

TS

yes heard some love 3ls [ floorstander too ] these were at hifinutt towers recently . the argon one are in an av system now

P1070806 by , on Flickr

By the way CM 1 outdated ages ago . replaced by newer models and plenty of deals on the 700 s2 range

 

[Gervais Cote]

The B&W CM1 are non fatiguing although they have a metal tweeter. To me, this is one of the rare metal tweeter that has that effect.
Nevertheless, they are limited in terms of sound pressure level due to their small woofers and they are not the end of the world in terms of definition compared to the Response D2. I compared both side by side.
Surprisingly though, their bass response is very good when used within their limits.

 

[omers]

It doesn't the port position is not relevant for placing a speaker close to a rear wall as long as you keep the diameter of the port as the minimum distance. Otherwise speaker from Audio Note wouldn't work or speakers with a port in the bottom with a few Christian Harazim of distance through speaker feats like Audio Physic for example. Also bear in mind how long those bass sound waves are, 100Hz (upper bass!) has a wave length of 3,4m do you really thing that the 0,3m of speaker depth = port position will have such a big effect?

Sure 30cm matters for sound of 100hz, try it. 30cm is more than 30 degrees of phase shift, a lot.
(Edit: and if we add the way back from the wall, it's 60 degrees.)

 

[Chris81]

Nonetheless the port position doesn't affect the ability for placing a speaker closer to a wall or not. Visaton has done some research with a speaker where they have measured the same speaker with a rear port and a front port and it was no difference in the bass response. Unfortunately the page isn't any longer available.

 

[Tarzan]

Personally I will not consider anything larger than say Proac Db1 in that space. That would rule out Response D2 and the like.

Or Tablette 10.......yawn.

 

[ryder]

Or Tablette 10.......yawn.

Yes, should be perfect in that space, huge advantage being able to go close to the rear wall when space is limited.

 

[Tim Jones]

Thank you

How do the DB1 compare to the 1SC?

I haven't found the Neat's at all directional... the treble and upper mids, to my ears at least, are really nicely dispersed - in fact probably better than any soft dome I've had (previous two were Dali Opticon 2 Mk2 and Q Acoustic Concept 20)

I'm aware that my memory of the 1SCs might be fading (other than the fact that they were excellent, and I should really never have sold them).

That said, the DB1s seem to have a slightly narrower width. They sound very similar, with heaps of insight in the crucial upper mid area. That seems to give a lot of drama and spatial detail, without any sense of grain or undue emphasis.

Lower down, coming from my PMC floorstanders in a room at least 50% bigger, the ProAcs just don't do that walk-in, "slam" bass, but I'm not conscious of things missing.

The trade-off between the first point and second is obviously the traditional difference between standmounts and floorstanders very generally speaking.

Mine are about a foot from the rear wall (actually bookcases), and over three feet from side walls. The are powered by a NAP250DR, firing across (rather than down) a 3m x 5m room. Really solid stands are essential.

 

[Rockmeister]

Of course it does. If the same speaker in the same location has a rear port, it's 30cm (suppose depth of speaker) closer to the rare wall than a front port.

and firing its bass straight at said wall, from where it reflects..... ported bass moves air in a straight line as well as sound. Put your hand in front of the port...see?

 

[Jezzer]

Or Tablette 10.......yawn.

Fantastic speakers but definitely not warm in the midrange unless your source/amp is… The tiny Tabs are revealing!

 

[Tarzan]

Fantastic speakers but definitely not warm in the midrange unless your source/amp is… The tiny Tabs are revealing!

 

[Alex S]

To add to the yawning, I have the ref 8 sigs. I like them but the Genelecs are better by a surprising amount, so hopefully the Tab 10s are equally better than the Ref 8s. (I know mine are ported and the 10s are sealed, although mine might fulfill the OP’s brief better).

 

[JTC]

You need to expand your horizons.

Studio monitors for nearfield monitoring is basically exactly your use case, and as they are aimed at poor musicians, they are keenly priced. I do take your point about looks, they can be weird or bling-tastic. The Genelecs are definitely things you should consider, but if you don't like the looks, investigate Dynaudio, something like the Lyd models might be more your style.

Moving to active speakers in this small form factor is a revelation, assuming you can use your amp as a pre (does it have pre out?). Don't worry about balanced vs RCA, it's not important for domestic users, so you can just get a suitable lead made up and you'll be golden. You'll come well under your budget for something quite exceptional. If you want to think about subs as well, all these manufacturers have suitable subs, not going deep, but filling maybe another octave down to 30Hz or so and increasing the SPL level you can achieve.

Quite. My 8030Cs are better than the Harbeth P3ESRs that they replaced (which were driven by a big, expensive Luxman class-A integrated). Stunningly good speakers for the money, you will not better than without spending a huge amount more I suspect.

 

[hifinutt]

could you squeeze in nice small tannoys