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Ukraine V

anubisgrau said:
Ah it can't be all this hustle is about US presidential elections 2024? Who would expect so?
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Actually, I have been trying to confirm your recent post that Serbia has supported Ukraine with weapons during this war. I even thanked your country for that.

I can't find anything about that (perhaps not surprising, given your track history), but your government did voice mild displeasure at Wagner recruiting Serbians for mercenary work in Ukraine.

So what is Serbian government position on this conflict? Hamburger helper provider for Russia or an ally to Ukraine? Neutral like Switzerland?

Your government's position seems as weird and unexplained as yours. Perhaps, they would really like for the Slavic big brother to get Ukrainian land and like you, are thirsty for American blood, but are too politically and morally shy to state so?
 
This is my neighborhood, 100meters from my flat. Basically it's a battle between FSB paid scum and local citizens who are against Putin.

In the last rounds of actions we were joined by Russian youngsters who fled from the war to Belgrade.

Also a FSB sponsored Wagner mural was demolished the same night it appeared:

Before

vag-e1674051261186.jpg


Less than 24h later:

IMG_20230115_143141_b-1000x560.jpg


and final stage

FmfawgQXoAEhibE





So far about real position of Serbia, however if you prefer fake news, lies and FSB and MI6 kitchens propaganda, who am I to disturb you.

PS. Funny that @EPear linked an Albanian scholar in the UK to prove something about Serbia, just as if anyone would quote a Russian (Putin) academia as a credible source of information on the Ukrainians and the war. Well done, I couldn't do it better.
 
anubisgrau said:
This is my neighborhood, 100meters from my flat. Basically it's a battle between FSB paid scum and local citizens who are against Putin.

In the last rounds of actions we were joined by Russian youngsters who fled from the war to Belgrade.

Also a FSB sponsored Wagner mural was demolished the same night it appeared:

Before

vag-e1674051261186.jpg


Less than 24h later:

IMG_20230115_143141_b-1000x560.jpg


and final stage

FmfawgQXoAEhibE





So far about real position of Serbia, however if you prefer fake news, lies and FSB and MI6 kitchens propaganda, who am I to disturb you.

PS. Funny that @EPear linked an Albanian scholar in the UK to prove something about Serbia, just as if anyone would quote a Russian (Putin) academia as a credible source of information on the Ukrainians and the war. Well done, I couldn't do it better.
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So what is the real position of the Serbian government?

Can you articulate it?

You said Serbia sent weapons to Ukraine, but I can't find any record of that.

Does this article describe it well?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...es-between-putin-and-his-ally-vucic-in-serbia
 
If you know how to read such an article, you will find all the answers you are looking for.

I don't support this government so don't ask me to explain their deeds. They are playing some stupid balancing between EU and Russia which makes no sense to me.

If you are honestly interested in, this is pretty much a good read, except a thing or two, but overall OK:

https://rs.boell.org/en/2022/03/25/serbias-position-context-war-ukraine-reasons-and-perspectives

Regarding the weapons export to Ukraine, yes they do so, mostly basic stuff since this is what is produced in Serbia. But - due to fear of Putin repercussions - and you will not protect Serbia in case of troubles - most are done in undercover operations or via middlemen. All of the depots with much sought after Eastern 152mm shells are emptied and sent to Ukraine through third countries, most often Bulgaria.

Last summer a big Ukrainian cargo military plane, loaded with Serbian weapons, crushed in Greece. It was officially heading to Bangladesh but it's a public secret it was going to Ukraine via strange routes. Go figure....

https://www.dw.com/en/mystery-plane-crash-were-serbian-weapons-headed-for-ukraine/a-62574069

"There is also speculation as to whether the weapons were not actually destined for Bangladesh at all but for Ukraine. Both Defense Minister Stefanovic and the manager of the Ukrainian company Meridian, which owned the downed plane, have denied this.

Expert believes that important questions remain. "The public is owed an answer as to why a Ukrainian plane was transporting Serbian weapons right now, while a major international conflict is raging on Ukrainian territory," he said.

The political scientist sees the affair as an expression of Belgrade's "seesaw" policies , attempting to balance between different major international powers.

"This would mean, on the one hand, secret munitions for Ukraine in order to please the West," he said. "On the other hand, concessions are being made to Russia by Serbia. All of this is part of the behavior of Belgrade's elites, their balancing between different international powerhouses in order to buy themselves services in return. For Serbia, the question is now whether these policies will collapse at a certain point because one of those powerhouses is angry."

They also allowed military convoys aimed to Ukraine transit via Serbia, something that Orban didn't.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...-to-ukraine-should-not-hurt-russia-relations/
 
I take everything in this war with a grain of salt. Maybe he was really a medic but I don't trust anyone anymore. Lots of US veterans end setting up various cover operations. I worked with MSF, Medicine Sans Frontiers, never met anyone with a military background.
 
anubisgrau said:
I take everything in this war with a grain of salt. Maybe he was really a medic but I don't trust anyone anymore. Lots of US veterans end setting up various cover operations. You find a lot about his military career, from Afghanistan to ISIS, not so much about the rest.
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See? This day turned out happy for you.

The jist of the Serbian politics article, is that your government would like to separate from Putin more, but their actions are limited by the sentiments of the Serbian population, who has been exposed to many years of Russian propaganda.

That makes a lot of sense.
 
There is no happy day for me as long as the war is going on. I only quoted the news, I think he's seventh American killed in Ukraine so far.

Your conclusions about Serbian politics are pretty much OK - a missing element is the amount of money Russia poured into Serbian media and corrupted politicians. They are creating such a tremendous damage and I have no clue how this is to be tackled. Sentiments of the population are not such a decisive factor as a dirty game behind.

Just a small illustration - can you imagine that people who painted 2 murals (Wagner, Putin) were actually paid via Russian Embassy Belgrade to do so?
 
That doesn't surprise me. I am sure you would say America buys its support, why wouldn't Russia do the same?

Maybe defaced murals were covered in the Russian press as the work of "paid American provocateurs." Yourself accused a dead American of being much the same on zero evidence a couple of posts up.

But Putin obviously didn't pay enough to get top talent! Or, more likely, RF embassy in Belgrade ripped him off, pocketed 90% of the money and hired a local bum to paint a mural.
 
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anubisgrau said:
So far about real position of Serbia, however if you prefer fake news, lies and FSB and MI6 kitchens propaganda, who am I to disturb you.
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I cannot see any real disconnect and even from what you are attempting to awkwardly deny, it looks like the UCL information is actually quite correct. Whatever you view is, Serbia is playing a farce with the EU while actually its government is signing foreign policy agreements with Russia against essentially free gas. If not already, Russia and Gazprom will soon essentially completely own and control Serbia. You may not agree, but this is acutely relevant both for the invasion of Ukraine and maintaining the fragile prospects of peace in Europe. The fact that Wagner are effectively left undisturbed (apart from some pretty obvious theatre and pretence from the PM) to be present and successfully recruit Serbs to fight for Russia and that the Russian embassy is openly recruiting for the Russian army in Belgrade just tells you who runs the show and where it’s all coming from and going to.
 
ah, you are hopeless. "foreign policy agreements", "free gas", "left undisturbed", "recruit serbs to fight for russia"... carry on mixing false news, propaganda and irrelevant things.
it's not that you are only a NATO troll, incapable of any factual analysis, you just smear any attempt of discussion (and believe or not this forum should be about that).
enjoy!
 
EPear said:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ecruitment-its-people-ukraine-war-2023-01-17/

And btw why is Serbia buying weapons from China?
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Why not? We can't produce everything alone.

Seriously, open a thread to dehumanize Serbia in every possible way and carry on there. You have a plenty of "influencers" produced in dark wings of Foreign Office you can link and quote, not only an Albanian "scholar" from UCL but many other from the same kitchen and the same payroll. You can even write about Novak Djokovic as a Russian stooge, a many other wonderful topics. Whole world is yours!

Why spoiling Ukraine thread?
 
anubisgrau said:
Why not? We can't produce everything alone.

Seriously, open a thread to dehumanize Serbia in every possible way and carry on there. You have a plenty of "influencers" produced in dark wings of Foreign Office you can link and quote, not only an Albanian "scholar" from UCL but many other from the same kitchen and the same payroll. You can even write about Novak Djokovic as a Russian stooge, a many other wonderful topics. Whole world is yours!

Why spoiling Ukraine thread?
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^^^^^^^^spoilage^^^^^^^^^
 
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