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Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

What seems to be surfacing is that the interface (USB, Ethernet) may actually be a problem (actually it's noise), hence endpoints/network-brides, galvanic isolation in USB interfaces, reducing processing and network activity to the bare minimum, etc.

Not according it to the AD paper you linked to, phase noise at the DAC chip interface is of no concern.
 
Not according it to the AD paper you linked to, phase noise at the DAC chip interface is of no concern.
Yes. That recent paper does not support "evidence" of a general interface problem as I read it.

I have done my own spreadsheet (as I always do to understand a complex chain of signal processing). It lists each stage in the chain and how I expect signal and accompanying noise to be influenced. The complete path, ending up at the point where it has been claimed that noise causes audible IMD.

My bottom line from the spreadsheet is that if the switch conforms to what I think are the current conducted emissions regulations there's no problem to be solved unless you have a DAC that has egregiously bad layout and IMD performance, well below normal for any reasonable modern product; or have an egregiously bad EMC environment well beyond normal domestic situations (when the switch actually becomes irrelevant). I see no reason to be nervous by default.

It is almost impossible to have online discussions in most places that are really evidence-based. Ultimately I see no evidence of a problem to be solved by any special network switch. My own ears provide the ultimate "evidence", based on my own network and its evolution over time. For others it's a case of YMMV of course.
 
Yes. That recent paper does not support "evidence" of a general interface problem as I read it.

I have done my own spreadsheet (as I always do to understand a complex chain of signal processing). It lists each stage in the chain and how I expect signal and accompanying noise to be influenced. The complete path, ending up at the point where it has been claimed that noise causes audible IMD.

My bottom line from the spreadsheet is that if the switch conforms to what I think are the current conducted emissions regulations there's no problem to be solved unless you have a DAC that has egregiously bad layout and IMD performance, well below normal for any reasonable modern product; or have an egregiously bad EMC environment well beyond normal domestic situations (when the switch actually becomes irrelevant). I see no reason to be nervous by default.

It is almost impossible to have online discussions in most places that are really evidence-based. Ultimately I see no evidence of a problem to be solved by any special network switch. My own ears provide the ultimate "evidence", based on my own network and its evolution over time. For others it's a case of YMMV of course.

Maybe ASR?

Q: Just a silly question: is this thread now about how ultrasonic noise on an Ethernet connection may impact music payload bit integrity and hence sound quality?

R: No, its about the effect of RF noise directly induced into the analog sections of a DAC. We silently always assume bit perfect data and this can be easily monitored if in doubt.

While this kind of disturbance should not happen with competent circuit design and layout, it does happen in practise. Same goes for direct GND voltage drop errors inside a DAC, a very related issue, 8kHz "USB packet noise being" one commonly observed effect. Unless these disturbances create actual malfunction or readily audible noise a device having these problems may still pass EMC tests with regard to robustness.

How relevant could these effects become in actual listening practise? As of yet, I'd say we simply don't know because there has not been a thorough investigation as of yet, to my knowledge.
 
There's a chance that the issue might not be showing in the typical set of measurements.
It would appear on the analogue out of the DAC, else you wouldn't have a chance to hear it. But everything so far is far below the threshold of hearing.

Sadly, ya have to get those graphs out...:)

Well worth a watch...

 
No I'm just wondering what happens if it's 60cm and not 50. Where did you decide it was 50 and what happens if it's further away? These are questions potential buyers will ask x
No-one decided. 50cm is the shortest CAT5/6 cable widely available.
 
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Too much attempted ‘point-scoring’ on this thread. I think I’ll give up on it. It has been useful for identifying some people I’d probably not want to bother meeting though, so not a total waste.

These threads always descend to this, often much more antagonistic than here to be fair. Many of the usual detractors are here.

Good luck with your efforts Flash, I'm also in Pharma, 33 years now, 11 years in R&D and I'm still enjoying the HiFi placebo of a fancy Ethernet switch in front of my DAC :cool:.

Enjoy the music folks.
 
These threads always descend to this, often much more antagonistic than here to be fair. Many of the usual detractors are here.

Good luck with your efforts Flash, I'm also in Pharma, 33 years now, 11 years in R&D and I'm still enjoying the HiFi placebo of a fancy Ethernet switch in front of my DAC :cool:.

Enjoy the music folks.
33 years! You put me to shame. Keep up the important work. <Searches in vain for obsequious bowing emoji>
 


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