Crossover change

[linnfomaniac83]

Naim IBLs have a crossover frequency of 2.7kHz using 3rd order, 18dB/octave slopes. It measures -3dB at 45Hz.

I'm not sure the Linn stereo active cards would work because I need to syphon off the bass to the subwoofer - I'm creating a three way speaker system in effect.

I'm using crossover frequencies of 2.7kHz and 45Hz on the DBX unit, both with 4th order, 24dB/octave slopes.

It sounds good I'm greedily wondering if it could send even better!

Chris

The Linn cards cross over at 2.8khz, the Ninka cards actually augment the lower bass, so probably now what you want… however, unless you’re getting over excursion or boom from the bass drivers of the IBLs, I’d consider running them full range and using something like a MiniDSP between the preamp and the sub. I’ve had FAR better results using my sub like that. The sun does a much better job of “disappearing” when the speakers are running full range. When the speakers are rolled off, you hear the transition between the speakers and sun more readily in my experience.

 

[robbyd]

Discovered this recently

https://www.iglooaudio.co.uk/spl-crossover-active-analog-2-way-crossover.html

 

[cporton]

The Linn cards cross over at 2.8khz, the Ninka cards actually augment the lower bass, so probably now what you want… however, unless you’re getting over excursion or boom from the bass drivers of the IBLs, I’d consider running them full range and using something like a MiniDSP between the preamp and the sub. I’ve had FAR better results using my sub like that. The sun does a much better job of “disappearing” when the speakers are running full range. When the speakers are rolled off, you hear the transition between the speakers and sun more readily in my experience.

Would definitely consider that but wouldn't want anything that boosts the lower bass (it seems from 100Hz down, according to the internet)... is there anywhere that would give me the frequency curves / specs of the various Linn card options so maybe one of the other speaker cards, other than the Ninka, would be better suited?

Chris

 

[cporton]

Discovered this recently

https://www.iglooaudio.co.uk/spl-crossover-active-analog-2-way-crossover.html

Apart from that being a 2 way crossover and me needing a 3 way crossover, I think the £2,900 price tag might be a bit more than I was hoping to spend

Chris

 

[mcleanmuir]

I assume these are passive crossovers (after the power amp) as opposed to active crossovers (before the power amp)?

Chris

Yes, passive, they sit beside the speaker. I could have left the old ones attached to the rear of the speaker but took them off so that I am able to get the speaker closer to the rear wall.

 

[jimmymcfarrell]

I was using the same DBX x-over with my Isobariks whilst searching for the proper Linn version. Despite setting the DBX to the frequencies specified for the Briks, the improvement I heard when I finally got hold of the “right” crossover was not subtle. I can only assume the ability of an electronic crossover to work with a given loudspeaker relies equally on having both frequency & slope correct and those DBXs 24db slopes are a bit steep.
This being the case, having recently bought SBLs (without passive crossovers) for a second system, I didn’t even bother trying to use them until I was able to source a Snaxo for them.

 

[jimmymcfarrell]

I was using the same DBX x-over with my Isobariks whilst searching for the proper Linn version. Despite setting the DBX to the frequencies specified for the Briks, the improvement I heard when I finally got hold of the “right” crossover was not subtle. I can only assume the ability of an electronic crossover to work with a given loudspeaker relies equally on having both frequency & slope correct and those DBXs 24db slopes are a bit steep.
This being the case, having recently bought SBLs (without passive crossovers) for a second system, I didn’t even bother trying to use them until I was able to source a Snaxo for them.

I think that maybe didn’t come across as I intended:

I didn’t mean “I’d rather sit here in silence than use a DBX crossover”. They’re excellent value & got me going with my Isobariks pretty successfully. With the SBLs, I didn’t need to get them working with any sort of urgency so was no bother waiting until I could get a snaxo. My point, for what it’s worth, is that IMHO I think the oem active crossover for the IBLs is more than likely going to be the one to go for.

 

[cporton]

My point, for what it’s worth, is that IMHO I think the oem active crossover for the IBLs is more than likely going to be the one to go for.

Food for thought here then… would involve changing my approach to blending the subwoofer but I can see the point.

Thanks to everyone for some great input to my thinking here

Chris

 

[Yank]

...using the Behringer DCX2496 to mirror the passive crossover of the IBLs between the treble and mid-range...

What does this mean?

 

[linnfomaniac83]

Would definitely consider that but wouldn't want anything that boosts the lower bass (it seems from 100Hz down, according to the internet)... is there anywhere that would give me the frequency curves / specs of the various Linn card options so maybe one of the other speaker cards, other than the Ninka, would be better suited?

Chris

There’s a good chance that @sunbeamgls will know, also, there’s another guy I know of, I’ll grab his details for you. He’s modified some amps and built a crossover box for my best mate’s Keltiks… it seems he really knows his Onions, or Linn crossovers!

 

[cporton]

What does this mean?

It means I programmed in the technical specifications of the passive IBL crossover (frequency point 2.7kHz, using 3rd order (18dB/octave) slopes) into the Behringer DCX2496 when I set it up as a crossover.

HTH

Chris

 

[cporton]

There’s a good chance that @sunbeamgls will know, also, there’s another guy I know of, I’ll grab his details for you. He’s modified some amps and built a crossover box for my best mate’s Keltiks… it seems he really knows his Onions, or Linn crossovers!

That would be great... I really appreciate the help

Chris

 

[jimmymcfarrell]

Are active sub woofers not designed to receive a full range signal & do the filtering themselves anyway?

 

[cporton]

Are active sub woofers not designed to receive a full range signal & do the filtering themselves anyway?

Yes… but I found that by doing the filtering within an external crossover, it was much easier to integrate the sub with the main speakers since the roll off on the main speakers was link to the roll on of the sub.

But I accept that maybe I should go with Linn Aktiv cards and then persevere with getting the sub positioning and settings right.

Chris

 

[S-Man]

Many years ago I reverse engineered my Linn Ninka Aktiv cards to find our why the bass was overblown when using them. IIRC the crossovers are textbook LR4 slopes for high and low pass. There is no correction for "imperfect" drivers!! The reason for the bass issues (at LInnfo has said) is that there is a 10dB boost with a corner frequency at 50Hz IIRC... that's a helluva lot! Not sure if this is intended as some bizarre sort of baffle step correction?

It's easy to defeat the boost, but then the Ninkas sound very lean.

I would avoid Linn's active crossovers unless the newer ones are better designed. You can get text book active filters elsewhere, with adjustable slopes and frequencies.

 

[Yank]

It means I programmed in the technical specifications of the passive IBL crossover (frequency point 2.7kHz, using 3rd order (18dB/octave) slopes) into the Behringer DCX2496 when I set it up as a crossover.

HTH

Chris

As I suspected. A passive crossover is seldom that simple. There are other things in a crossover other than just a textbook filter shape, there is usually some compensation for the acoustic response of the drivers. (unless it's ...cough...Linn...cough...)

 

[cporton]

I would avoid Linn's active crossovers unless the newer ones are better designed. You can get text book active filters elsewhere, with adjustable slopes and frequencies.

Thanks for the advice... I'll see whether the Linn Aktiv card experts are aware of an improvement in design... I definitely don't want +10dB at 50Hz!

Chris

 

[cporton]

As I suspected. A passive crossover is seldom that simple. There are other things in a crossover other than just a textbook filter shape, there is usually some compensation for the acoustic response of the drivers. (unless it's ...cough...Linn...cough...)

I took the filter shape from Naim's own technical specification of the IBL active crossover but I understand there might be nuances here.

Thankfully I'm genuinely happy with how it sounds now... so even if I can't find a better solution for the crossover, the move to the DBX has really worked for me.

Chris

 

[jimmymcfarrell]

I took the filter shape from Naim's own technical specification of the IBL active crossover but I understand there might be nuances here.

Thankfully I'm genuinely happy with how it sounds now... so even if I can't find a better solution for the crossover, the move to the DBX has really worked for me.

Chris

I suspect it is likely only peoples opinion but when I was looking for a crossover to get my Isobariks up & running I’m sure the reason I ended up with the DBX unit was because the general consensus seemed to be they were the best value / sounding option available for sensible money.

How did you set the filter shape? The DBX is 24db / octave right across the board iirc with only adjustments being to the frequency at which this sharp cut off happens.
Is it a good thing having such steep crossover slopes?

 

[retseldrib]

I replaced my Linn Aktiv crossover and six mono-block power amps with three of these which have a built in electronic crossover: https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xls-1502

I think the sound I have now is far better than before.