NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
Thanks to all for the support.
Linn LP12s – Fire away!
- Thread starter NickofWimbledon
- Start date
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
I like the Collaro mat on my old LP12 - some do, some don't. I will try both mats on the Stiletto at some point. Unlike some, I don't really prefer the look of the Collaro among all the black things, so it will have to sound better to survive (or, if it does, I may get a black one for Christmas).
I will also do an extended comparison between old LP12 and Stiletto to satisfy myself that in my room the extra music is worth the extra money. However, I am currently very pleased with it, and relieved, and I will be very aware which LP12 I am listening to, so any semblance of a balanced judgement on its merits versus the old LP12 will have to wait.
I will also try putting the Stiletto on the SRM platform, but expect that to do more good on the wooden-plinth LP12 with the matching SRM base, so I will probably sell it with that LP12 if the buyer wants it.
For now, I am not doing any of that: I have records to play.
per-Sony-fied
Me in another jacket
Nice one Nick. Who'd of thought that?
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
The Stiletto has the Skorpion base with adjustable metal feet. It sits directly on the MDF board of the Target wall shelf.
As mentioned, I will try it with and without the SRM isolation platform and use it if it helps. However, my current guess is that that works best with the matching SRM base on my old cherry-plinth LP12. So, when I get around to actually selling that, the buyer will probably be welcome to both SRM bits if they want them. TBH, anyone should probably give both a try if they want a modestly tighter and cleaner bass performance, but the places for which a Tramp was designed are probably not the places to put the SRM-equipped LP12.
I will probably also try different materials under the Stiletto at some stage, just to be sure, though past evidence suggests that (at least to my ear and in my room) it is hard to improve on the old MDF board supplied with the Target stand 30+ years ago.
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
It's a great result and the sound justifies the effort. As for 'who'd have thought of that?', I certainly didn't.
Mind you, there are some comments on here that talk about how Rega arms and turntables arrange the whole earthing issue. With hindsight, I should have thought more about them and we might have got there faster.
I regard hunting for ground loops and the like as equal parts black art and blind luck - and thus best done by someone else. It was Hitesh from Infidelity who nailed it.
jimification
pfm Member
This is the hifi equivalent of when you've been watching the news every day following some poor people that have been trapped in rubble for 15 days..and they finally get rescued.
Glad you got it sorted!
Glad you got it sorted!
Paul Hindle
Do you mock me?
This is not a skill that we mortals usually get the opportunity to develop. When we have a one off problem like this it’s best to get an expert in. I’ve had this problem once in the last 35 years. I have no desire to become an expert. Glad everything is sorted. Start wearing that stylus out. I guess you’ll be spending more time on HMV or Discogs I the near future
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
We tried lots of options when investigating its isolation, during which we tried putting it directly on my granite shelves. Conventional wisdom suggests that that would sound awful - it did.
We tried the Fraim route of glass, cups and balls on the granite rack and on the wall shelf - very nasty and pretty nasty respectively.
We tried chunks of wood under the LP12 in various places, as well as rubbery feet from HRS - the best we tried had several layers and sounded about as good as the Target shelf but looked much worse.
A typical rack would have trouble fitting into the alcove and holding all the boxes, but the ultra-bouncy floor is a bigger issue. I recall that putting it on an old Sound Org table while doing other things meant that the needle took every opportunity to take flight - not great for SQ (none) or needle life. It also sounded vaguer in bass even when we all sat carefully and no buses were passing.
I think that I have been mistrustful of the Target shelf purely because it dates from the early 90s and is the only thing that has not been upgraded since then, it looks basic/ industrial, it cost about £50 and the MDF board looks tatty. It's certainly much less impressive than (say) the Quadraspire bronze/ bamboo alternative. Testing sound is hard because I am not prepared to try several shelves on my wall, and I am not convinced that a better shelf (if found) would actually sound appreciably better to my old ears, give how little the differences were between non-dreadful options that we did try.
One day, Tangerine or Naim (see Fraim) or even Linn themselves may make a wall shelf specifically for LP12s, and that might be worth exploring. Otherwise, I think I fan sit back and listen without wondering wheter I am missing out because I have not tried X, Y or Z. After all, a fairly dispassionate view would be that the weak points in my hi-fi today are my ears and my house.
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
This is not a skill that we mortals usually get the opportunity to develop. When we have a one off problem like this it’s best to get an expert in. I’ve had this problem once in the last 35 years. I have no desire to become an expert. Glad everything is sorted. Start wearing that stylus out. I guess you’ll be spending more time on HMV or Discogs I the near future
Discogs is already open.
Mind you, I was in Ben's Collectors' Records in Guilford recently, and they suggested emailing them a list of things I want and then using Discogs to fill in the gaps. If only I could be disciplined about what vinyl really needs replacing...
Life would also be simpler if I had a list of 'audiophile' vinyl to avoid. For me, that would already include the apparently-mastered-at-half-speed Abbey Road and the Tres Hombres with a while label and the legend RHI1 on it. Given the deliberate choices on recording, mixing and mastering, I also struggle to hear why I need audiophile copies of any Zeppelin or much Hendrix (wonderful though the music is)...
Paul Hindle
Do you mock me?
There is a simple rule that I have learned over the years and that is, some recordings sound amazing on a hifi system and others don’t. No matter what system you play them on, some recordings just never rise to the occasion whilst others just sound better and better. I’ll offer just some random examples, Clannads - Nadur shouts “bring it on” and gives more the better the system whereas Barclay James Harvest - Ring of Changes (one of my favourite albums) never really shines, nor do any of Rush’s albums(one of my all time favourite bands). Ok, you get more detail and resolution on a high end system, but no more ambience and atmosphere than on a more modest system, none of that blow you away hifi sound. The reason, seems to be that I am listening to the results of somebody’s recording, mixing and mastering efforts. More recently it is easy to become victim to pressing issues.
I would only replace damaged and noisy vinyl. Never to hopefully improve quality. Not sure if that helps. These days I find discovering new music much more fun.
edit: if you don’t already own a copy of Led Zeppelins 3 disc remasters vinyl then you need to.
jimification
pfm Member
Completely: The most noticeable example for me is: "Two Tribes". It always sounds flipping fantastic, even on the crappiest little mono telly speaker.
Re: Rush: I do know what you mean but Power Windows sounds pretty good! (big Rush fan too)
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
Fair enough, but as a related point, are there any LPs where you find better hi-fi makes little difference to how good they sound?
FWIW, most of my vinyl is 0-60 yers old and sounds it. Supposedly audiophile versions of Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd and Joni Mitchell may not be better than a mint first pressing, but they have more music than I think my own originals ever did, as well as being quieter. Other ears and other LPs...
Tony L
Administrator
The extended 12” 45 ‘Annihilation Mix’ is just astonishing through the Lockwoods here. Staggeringly good! Everyone should have a copy of this one.
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
I have the "Carnage Mix" on picture disk -which I usually avoid- and it just may be the most dynamic recording I've ever heard, the house shakes at 5:53, seen here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=two...#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:18138d7d,vid:mNqtTTSJmYc
Personally it's been very rare in my experience when "audiophile versions" or later represses/remasters sound more musical than original first pressings.
Same here. I gave up with them in the end. Some were very good and dead quiet like the Kevin Grey / Rhino, but never seemed to enjoy the music quite as much.
Tony L
Administrator
I’ve got Carnage as the flip-side of the picture disk of War, which I guess that may be, but mine doesn’t sound as good as the one in the video being a more typical crackly picture disk.
Annihilation is the one IMO:
It sounds astonishing from the original vinyl, plus with all the nuclear attack announcements is the one I remember from clubs at the time. The original 16 minute 33rpm mix of Relax is another stunning sounding 12”, it never gets to the pop single bit at all! It baffles me just how good this ZTT stuff sounds (Propaganda, Art Of Noise etc too) given it was largely knocked up on now incredibly primitive Fairlight, Linn Drum, Synclavier etc early digital technology. Much of it only 8 or 12 bit! The vinyl just kills any CD remasters here so I guess a lot of work was done at the cut.
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
If they were consistently worse, we'd all know to avoid them. Plenty of thick vinyl sounds great and plenty more sound slow and short on foot-tapping-ness to me - as a musician chum said - all tone, no tune.
That is the single best sounding 12" single I have ever heard. It's epic through any system that can properly handle bass. As you say, astonishing how good it sounds given how it was recorded. Trevor Horn certainly knew what he was doing.