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Naim Nac 102 Nap 180 continuing saga.

This is just a description of the Naim olive sound. I particularly like the suggestion it could be because the speaker wires are different lengths
Just keep it and wait until you are old enough to loose a bit of HF hearing or buy an LP 12/Ittock and bore yourself to death ‘upgrading’
 
Chris Gallagher said:
Could I pair an olive Hicap with these or should it be the same era/logo style?
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An Olive Hicap would be the same era and style as the 102 and 180 so would be a perfect match. When I owned a 102 and 180 I was only happy with it when paired with both Napsc and Hicap. But of course that’s four boxes and you may not want that. The 102/180 could be a bit shrill and relentless. With Naim there is always a temptation to get more and more and never be happy. I use a Supernait 3 these days and think it’s great. Maybe a Supernait 2 would work for you. They can be found for £1,600 or so and I suspect the smoother sound might be more to your liking.

The CD5i is still an issue even if you changed amps. It’s also quite relentless and with a 102/180 or indeed a Supernait 2 you really need something better. Which raises another thing - as you have the Node, do you need a CD player at all? Perhaps you could sell the CDP and the Node and get a better streamer?
 
OK, try this simple thing; source a piece of 3/4" press board close to the same size as your Atacama shelf. Get some bluetack (or blacktack). It's a putty like substance found at hardware store. Put four pieces, one at each corner of your existing shelf, then put the new 3/4's particle board on top of that, sandwhiching the bluetack. Then, cut a section of cardboard from a box you might have laying around and put that on the shelf under your component. Maybe start with the 102. You should here a distinct softening of the sound. Then try it under the 180 and finally the CD5. This might help isolate the trouble maker in your system. I am literally running this combo under my CDSII right now because it just sounds better, smoother. It's amazing how little tweaks can make a difference.

I would also recommend a hicap for the 102, chrome bumper or olive, doesnt matter. Then purchase the DIY Avondale TPR4 (https://avondaleaudio.com/audiophil...al-Precision-Regulator-DIY-version/p/62419094) for a couple hundred bucks. A couple screws and a little soldering is all it takes. This one upgrade REALLY smoothed out my 102 and allowed me to play almost any CD in my collection without a lot of harshness. Before this one modification, many CD's were just un-listenable.

Finally, a mod that took my CD5 to another level is the Viborg MBU1501 HiFi Power Cable, copper plugs (not rhodium). It's on sale on Amazon of all places. $112 is an absolute steal. The cable was a recommendation from a fellow audiophile. I was a bit skeptical but pleasantly surprised.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088W45NGD?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Those are the easy and inexpensive wins.

Todd
 
I cant believe we are talking about hicaps ,cables and blutak under components. The system is harsh at high volume irrespective of source so its nothing to do with the source.the combo of your amplifiers, speakers and room are not working so you MUST try either a different amp or speakers in your own system at home, anything else will be throwing a load of good money after bad.

Rgds
Stuart
 
Chris Gallagher said:
I should have said I also have a rega P6
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Now, when people open up for many other suggestions, may I ask what cartridge/phonostage your using with P6.
That source should comfortably wipe the streamer and CD in mention.

Also make sure to run proper length and the right speaker cables - which could be many - it does matter with a 180.
 
There is a lot of advice here that I find surprising, including lots from people who seem keen to rubbish Naim kit or your hearing/ preferences or both. Surely borrowing a box or two from a mate or a shop will let you investigate without spending any money or trusting any theorizing?

Also, I was not suggesting that you had uneven speaker cable lengths. However, if you have less than 3.5M or a cable whose impedance makes it vey Naim-unfriendly, then you might wrll find the result unpleasant.
 
jay said:
Would be fine if it's in good nick.

Couple more things to check out.

Grounding. Take the Rega out of the system. Make any difference?
Perhaps your speakers need to be recited, ie. moved? Sometimes upstream changes mean you need to revisit speaker positioning.
How long ago was a 180 down. Does it need to be run in.
Open the 102, make sure the boards are firmly seated, etc?
Do you have the optional power supply for the 102, can't remember what it was called. Would do that before a hicap.
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Yes I have the naspc
 
colasblue said:
For not a lot you can get a topping D90SE, which will eat pretty much any available CD player alive (and pretty much any other DAC too) all for under a grand. You'll even get about £500 back from your CD5

You could then go up and up the Naim preamp range and find that the preamps really aren't at all transparent until you get to the 82 with upgraded PSU's. Alternatively you could get your 102 superlinked, but you will also need to shell out for a Teddy supercap or an upgraded Naim one to get the benefit. In practice though you'll just leave the preamp out of the system and use the topping's volume control.

All of this will come through perfectly clearly with the 180 and your Kefs
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Thanks for that, problem is I'm new to Naim and don't really know what any of this means - What is a d90se? What does superlinked mean? What does toppings volume control mean? Sorry to be such a newb!
 
I think you have both a CD player and an amp which are inclined to sound harsh.

I'd get rid of the CD player first. I've not heard the Rega Apollo but the Saturn-R is a lovely analogue sounding player that it still rhythmic and fun. It is better than both the Naim CDX/XPS and CD5XS I've had. And has full DAC inputs.

If that doesn't fix it, change the amp too. The answer from the Naim sheep is always to buy more Naim boxes but don't listen to them. 'Oh you just need another big transformer in a box and it'll be fine'. Rubbish. These changes are slight and incremental, the sound stays fundamentally the same. Get something more even handed and musical and you won't be screaming to upgrade all the time.
 
PerF said:
Now, when people open up for many other suggestions, may I ask what cartridge/phonostage your using with P6.
That source should comfortably wipe the streamer and CD in mention.

Also make sure to run proper length and the right speaker cables - which could be many - it does matter with a 180.
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Using the ania cartridge it came with.
 
Mr Pig said:
I think you have both a CD player and an amp which are inclined to sound harsh.

I'd get rid of the CD player first. I've not heard the Rega Apollo but the Saturn-R is a lovely analogue sounding player that it still rhythmic and fun. It is better than both the Naim CDX/XPS and CD5XS I've had. And has full DAC inputs.

If that doesn't fix it, change the amp too. The answer from nd the Naim sheep is always to buy more Naim boxes but don't listen to them. 'Oh you just need another big transformer in a box and it'll be fine'. Rubbish. These changes are slight and incremental, the sound stays fundamentally the same. Get something more even handed and musical and you won't be screaming to upgrade all the time.
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Thanks Mr Pig, what would you recommend that would be more even handed?
 
Mr Pig said:
The answer from the Naim sheep is always to buy more Naim boxes
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I wouldn't give up the Olive amps.
Indeed in this situation a Hicap and correct cabling will help, it seem as OP already are Napsc'ed.
Source issue need to be solved.

More recent Naim amps are quite different sounding, refined and rounded, easier on ear, some of them are really good IME, but now too expensive.
New Rega amps as others suggest are really nice too.
 
Chris Gallagher said:
Thanks Mr Pig, what would you recommend that would be more even handed?
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Personally, I use an old Meridian 101 pre and 105 power amps. Old and cheap but very happy with them. I'm not familiar with what current amps are good. I've heard nice things about Rega amps but only heard a few in passing, I couldn't give a judgment on them.

I still think Naim amps are good but not very rounded and expensive for what they do. I used them for twenty years and was always thinking about upgrading. I was never satisfied with the sound. Had the Meridians maybe fifteen years and in all honesty I've never thought about changing them. They do all I want. The Saturn-R is the same. I've heard some very good CD players and the Saturn is up there.
 
Chris Gallagher said:
Sorry but I don't know what that first sentence means.
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Sorry...an amplifier which operates in class A, and a passive control - pre amp, if you like.

Khozmo make a volume control and source switch where the volume is a series of switches each with an individual resistor. Other passive pre options include transformer and autoformer. They are all super clean with zero hash on the treble. Class A amps are usually sweet and detailed. Together they should allow you to loose the treble coarseness you complain of. I think your speakers are up to it, your amps possibly not.
 
There’s a "Witch Hat modified" NAC102 on eBay at the moment.

The NAC102 delivers masses of detail, and consequently has been described as sounding bright or harsh; I used to say “it takes no prisoners!” (mine is in storage, waiting for a spare power supply to become available).

It’s big brother the NAC82 sorts out those issues.

The Meridian 101 was, and remains, a nice preamp (heck, we’ve still got two of them in use!), but sounds dull when compared to the Naim “olive” preamps.
 
It isn't a superlink one! Seems to have been modified to run on 2 Hicaps like the 82 and may have additional mods which aren't clearly described.

MJS might be able to tell us more.
 
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