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Alternative wiring for Naim & Avondale Preamp/PS

Bruv Sawney

Bruv Sawney

pfm Member
I’ve recently purchased an Avondale Grad 1/TPX2 Preamp and power supply that is wired in what I understand is the Avondale preferred method with the interconnect to the power amp being from the preamp.

I also have a NAC72 preamp with RSL Cards and an RSL ZapCap power supply that is wired in the conventional Naim configuration with the connection to the power amp being from the power supply.

I would like to try the various combinations, i.e. the RSL’d NAC72 with the TPX2 and the Grad 1 with the ZapCap!

I’ve seen that people have used a TPX2 with Naim preamps so I’m assuming it’s possible but I have no idea how to connect them and what interconnects I might need. Any ideas?
 
I'll be very interested in your comparison/mix-and-match results. I can't speak to the specs for the TPX2/Grad1 units but the RSL 72 needs 25v or more (up to about 30v is fine). It uses the standard Naim type SNAIC connector cable to the RSL ZapCap (which is already set for 25v). Depending on what the Grad 1 needs, you can adjust the ZapCap output voltages over a range up to near 30v using the adjustment pots on the PCB. If you need help with that, let me know.

I also highly recommend running the audio signal directly to the power amp from the preamp and not through the power supply, even the ZapCap. You can hear the beneficial effect immediately, so do try it. The way to hook that up from a 72 is to use a 4-pin DIN connector to the socket immediately next to the last one where the power supply plugs in. This next socket is labelled "Output". Just take that straight to your power amp. Depending on your power amp inputs, you may need a converter type cable of DIN to RCA or whatever. No other mods are needed and the SNAIC cable from the power supply can still be used, as is, in its normal place. The audible improvement is well worth the cost of the cable to make this conversion!
 
Bruv Sawney said:
I’ve recently purchased an Avondale Grad 1/TPX2 Preamp and power supply that is wired in what I understand is the Avondale preferred method with the interconnect to the power amp being from the preamp.

I also have a NAC72 preamp with RSL Cards and an RSL ZapCap power supply that is wired in the conventional Naim configuration with the connection to the power amp being from the power supply.

I would like to try the various combinations, i.e. the RSL’d NAC72 with the TPX2 and the Grad 1 with the ZapCap!

I’ve seen that people have used a TPX2 with Naim preamps so I’m assuming it’s possible but I have no idea how to connect them and what interconnects I might need. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

If you get confused just listen to the music play :)
 
RyanSoundLab said:
I'll be very interested in your comparison/mix-and-match results. I can't speak to the specs for the TPX2/Grad1 units but the RSL 72 needs 25v or more (up to about 30v is fine). It uses the standard Naim type SNAIC connector cable to the RSL ZapCap (which is already set for 25v). Depending on what the Grad 1 needs, you can adjust the ZapCap output voltages over a range up to near 30v using the adjustment pots on the PCB. If you need help with that, let me know.

I also highly recommend running the audio signal directly to the power amp from the preamp and not through the power supply, even the ZapCap. You can hear the beneficial effect immediately, so do try it. The way to hook that up from a 72 is to use a 4-pin DIN connector to the socket immediately next to the last one where the power supply plugs in. This next socket is labelled "Output". Just take that straight to your power amp. Depending on your power amp inputs, you may need a converter type cable of DIN to RCA or whatever. No other mods are needed and the SNAIC cable from the power supply can still be used, as is, in its normal place. The audible improvement is well worth the cost of the cable to make this conversion!
Click to expand...

Hi Kit,

Thanks for replying!

If I understand you correctly, and just dealing with the 72/ZapCap for the moment, all I need to do is move the “4 pin DIN to 3 pin XLR” (running to the power amp) from the “Amp 1” socket on the ZapCap to the “Output” socket on the 72? The ‘5 pin DIN to 5 pin DIN” interconnect should remain on the “Output to HiCap” socket on the NAC72 to the “Preamp” socket on the ZapCap? Is it really that simple?

The Grad 1/TPX Are connected together using a “5 pin DIN to 5 pin DIN” with a “2x RCA to 3pin XLR” (that I have) to the power amp. Therefore, once the wiring is set to separate the audio and power I easily swap/compare to my hearts content!

With regard to the voltages I assume I would need some kind of equipment (multimeter?) to change the settings?
 
I might be being real stupid here…..I don’t understand electrics!!!

Searching through previous threads it seems that whilst both the Avondale and Naim methods of connection use a “5 pin to 5 pin DIN” between the preamp and power supply and “4 pin to the power amp” the Avondale cables are wired differently to Naim? There is a warning that using the Naim cables on the Avondale strategy will damage the power supply.

The Grad1/TPX2 work perfectly with the supplied cables but there is no identification to indicate how the cables are wired. I’m assuming that they are wired the Avondale way? From Kit’s response above it would seem that I should use the standard Naim type “5 pin DIN to 5 pin DIN” cable to connect the 72/ZapCap using the Avondale strategy.

But what about connecting the Grad 1/ZapCap or NAC72/TPX2? Is there a third kind of cable that I need?
 
As far as the RSL 72/ZapCap goes, you can do just what you say - simply move the 4-pin DIN cable from the back of the ZapCap to the "output" position on the rear of the 72. I just verified that a minute ago and it works perfectly. You should hear some improvement in the sound.

I can't find any data on the Grad 1/TPX so can't help you with how they might be cross-connected to the RSL equipment. You will need a regular volt meter to check power supply voltages and pins to be sure before switching cables.
 
To address Jez's statement, you already have the equipment to do a direct comparison of the Grad/TPX combination vs the RSL combination (after you switch the power amp cable to go directly from the preamp). Why not start there and let us know what you think?
 
I will do a proper comparison and comments when I have time but I must say that the Grad1/TPX2 combination is tremendous!!

After three days listening my initial impression is the Grad1/TPX2 combination gives the same level of improvement over the RSL'd 72/ZapCap that the RSL'd 72/ZapCap had over the standard NAC72/HiCap. And that was a very big improvement!
 
I am sure someone will correct me but for using the avondale style wiring you need din cables with different or less wiring eg no power in the audio cable and no audio components in the power cable.
 
RyanSoundLab said:
Thanks for the test results. Everyone hears differently and everyone's system is different, of course. Enjoy your two options.
Click to expand...

Very true! I'm using an Avondale'd NAP250 (NCC220 Qudos & HSR200 boards) with Avondale passive crossovers into my SBL's so I suspect that the synergy with the Grad1/TPX2 is a big factor! Obviously my impressions are based only on this system.

It has to be said that the RSL'd 72/ZapCap combination is very very good and blew the standard Naim 72/Hicap out of the water!

I was interested in comparing the various combinations because I'm curious to understand what is doing what. The Grad 1 is considered to be the "holy grail" by some members on here and, looking inside, there is a lot more "stuff" inside than there is in the NAC72. I don't know what any of it does but I suspect that is where the difference lays. All this is very subjective but the Grad1/TPX2 combination feels more transparent and has certainly added a significant weight/solidity to my system. It has maybe lost, however, a little of the fluidity & delicacy that I experienced with the RSL'd72/ZapCap combination.

For that reason I would have liked to hear the Grad 1 with the ZapCap but, for me, I don't think that will be possible! I don't know enough about the electrics to understand but it seems from looking through threads on here that the Grad1/TPX2 runs at 32 volts whilst the 72/ZapCap combination seems to run at 25-30 volts. I'm not going to start experimenting and blow my stuff up!
 
say it as it is said:
I am sure someone will correct me but for using the avondale style wiring you need din cables with different or less wiring eg no power in the audio cable and no audio components in the power cable.
Click to expand...
I think you are right! Different cables, different voltages and, in my case, no clue as to what goes where!
 
RyanSoundLab said:
I also highly recommend running the audio signal directly to the power amp from the preamp and not through the power supply, even the ZapCap. You can hear the beneficial effect immediately, so do try it. The way to hook that up from a 72 is to use a 4-pin DIN connector to the socket immediately next to the last one where the power supply plugs in. This next socket is labelled "Output". Just take that straight to your power amp. Depending on your power amp inputs, you may need a converter type cable of DIN to RCA or whatever. No other mods are needed and the SNAIC cable from the power supply can still be used, as is, in its normal place. The audible improvement is well worth the cost of the cable to make this conversion!
Click to expand...

I’ve tried this (as you say, it’s very easy to do) but definitely preferred the standard method. These days I run a custom Snaic where the signal still goes via the (RSL modified) hi-cap but the power is separated to its own, shielded, cable. I made a number of variations on this theme and chose my favourite.
 
The Grad One/TPX2 was a no compromise preamp and irrespective of any synergy, it’s always going to be better. Not knocking the 72 with uprated boards and different power supplies because that’s what I had, but the Grad One is in a different class. As is the TPX2, Les’s ultimate power supply.
 
Back in the day a (now retired) official Naim importer to one of the continental European countries (not France) told me that he used the alternative connection (i.e. signal separated from DC) and I did prefer that with my 72 (with Naim and later Avondale cards) and Teddycap/Hicap/TPX2. I also had a Grad 1 which is really great for the price.

Unless Les has changed the configuration of the PS, the TPX2 has adjustable DC output. If you want know the whole picture it might be worth checking what voltage yours is set to.

For what it's worth, I ended up with Grad 1 and TPX2 set to somewhere in the 27-30V range and sold on the 72+Hicap.

I would suggest avoiding non standard CD outputs (i.e. above2V) with eh Grad 1 or using attenuators. It did not gel too well with the above standard output of the Chord DAC64/II I was using at the time, sounding "hard" compared to other sources (something, later experience has shown was not due to the Chord DAC sound in itself).
 
uncl_nigel said:
Back in the day a (now retired) official Naim importer to one of the continental European countries (not France) told me that he used the alternative connection (i.e. signal separated from DC) and I did prefer that with my 72 (with Naim and later Avondale cards) and Teddycap/Hicap/TPX2. I also had a Grad 1 which is really great for the price.

Unless Les has changed the configuration of the PS, the TPX2 has adjustable DC output. If you want know the whole picture it might be worth checking what voltage yours is set to.

For what it's worth, I ended up with Grad 1 and TPX2 set to somewhere in the 27-30V range and sold on the 72+Hicap.

I would suggest avoiding non standard CD outputs (i.e. above2V) with eh Grad 1 or using attenuators. It did not gel too well with the above standard output of the Chord DAC64/II I was using at the time, sounding "hard" compared to other sources (something, later experience has shown was not due to the Chord DAC sound in itself).
Click to expand...

Hi uncl_nigel,

The last paragraph is interesting! As I said above with the Grad1/TPX2 I’ve gained a lot but also feel I’ve lost a bit of the fluidity/delicacy that I had with the RSL’d72/ZapCap combination.

I’m using a Rega Saturn R CD player with a “Maximum Analogue Output Level: 2.18V (minimum load impedance 10ohm)”. You mention an output above 2V sounding “hard” with the Grad 1. Is 2.18V far enough above the 2.0V you mention to have an effect? If I wanted to try an attenuator how would I establish the value that would be required?
 
Bruv Sawney said:
Hi uncl_nigel,

The last paragraph is interesting! As I said above with the Grad1/TPX2 I’ve gained a lot but also feel I’ve lost a bit of the fluidity/delicacy that I had with the RSL’d72/ZapCap combination.

I’m using a Rega Saturn R CD player with a “Maximum Analogue Output Level: 2.18V (minimum load impedance 10ohm)”. You mention an output above 2V sounding “hard” with the Grad 1. Is 2.18V far enough above the 2.0V you mention to have an effect? If I wanted to try an attenuator how would I establish the value that would be required?
Click to expand...
The Chord was outputting above 3V. I'd be surprised if 2.18V is enough to upset the Grad 1.
 
uncl_nigel said:
The Chord was outputting above 3V. I'd be surprised if 2.18V is enough to upset the Grad 1.[/Thanks for replying
Click to expand...
uncl_nigel said:
The Chord was outputting above 3V. I'd be surprised if 2.18V is enough to upset the Grad 1.
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding.

I don’t know if the Grad1/TPX2 have “settled down” or if I have just got used to the sound but it seems much smoother than it did initially. Do preamps/power supplies need a time to settle after they haven’t been used for a while?
 
Bruv Sawney said:
Thanks for responding.

I don’t know if the Grad1/TPX2 have “settled down” or if I have just got used to the sound but it seems much smoother than it did initially. Do preamps/power supplies need a time to settle after they haven’t been used for a while?
Click to expand...
In my experience, some more than others.
I tended to leave my TPX2+Grad 1 on; but in those days we were less aware of electricity prices and global warming...
 
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