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Music, Home Theatre, when to give up integrating both?

fiveamp

pfm Member
First a little bit of history: I was an early adopter of home cinema, plugging a Yamaha pro-logic decoder into my integrated, adding to my speaker count, and using a stereo VCR as a video source. Then came DVD, so I got one with a 5.1 decoder and of course I needed a receiver that could take the 5.1 chanel inputs and got a cheap Sherwood from RS. This was home cinema bliss - vibrating sofa, things spinning around the room - great. Then I played music on it - dreadful. IMPORTANT - my home cinema expectations are more easily satisfied than my music ones. What followed was expensive Arcam Alpha 10s, Dave modules and more.

To cut a long story short, over twenty years on, I seems to have downgraded in stages (Exposure 30202SD/Marantz NR1509 via AV8/7 channel Audiolab and Yamaha RX-A2010). I am thinking now about giving up this crusade and getting a Sonos ARC and sub (I already have Sonos speakers I can use as rears), so for about 1600 quid I can fix all this home cinema nonsense to my satisfaction, while also allowing the rest of the household to play what they want with a simple to use app. This will completely liberate my music system.

The alternative would be to keep my current speaker setup and replace the Marantz/Exposure setup (I like the Exposure but the Marantz not so much) with some Arcam at around 3000-4000 quid, then if I want Atmos I will need to spend that again on all new speakers to keep the synergy. When I think what sort of music system I could get for that sort of money (see the important bit above) with the bonus of moving the speakers around the room (not either side of the telly) the Sonos sounds very attractive. I also hate having a huge centre speaker, great though it is.

Has anybody around here done this? Thought about it? Done it and regreted it? I am probably more interested in critiques of my methodology and thought process than any specifics about hardware. Any other ideas?

I fancy getting back into the music side of this hobby and just letting the home cinema take care of itself.
 
I use a (very cheap SH) Onkyo HT receiver for music only. As I use subs I like the flexible sub crossover. That's why I use it.

I did multichannel cinema sound in the 90's and was totally underwhelmed. To me, hearing sound coming from somewhere else than the picture is just weird and even disturbing. I have tried, on occasion, surround sound (Pro logic 2) on 2 channel music and, at best, it's different but not 'better'.

So, to me it's 2 channel music that matters. Cinema sound is fine as long as one can hear the dialogue ;)
 
I used to have 4.0 cinema sound integrated with the stereo hi-fi as well as a projector and 2.4m screen.
First to go was the 4.0 (I found that a lot of the surround effects were tiring rather than "immersive", although the flying cows in Twister were great fun)
Nowadays, home cinema is Netflix or DVD on the 27" screen of the iMac mostly through Beyer 990 pro headphones

The stereo set up on the other hand has gone through the upgrade roof :)

Not necessarily a suggested model, just my response to my circumstances - with my sight, sitting comfortably 50cm or so in front of the iMac is a better proposition than sitting on the edge of the coffee table a metre or so away from a large screen.

And removing all that clutter was such a relief!
 
Are you in a position where you can have the Sonus Arc system and the music system, but keep them separate?

All you need is a pair of front speakers, and you could simply not use them when listening to the cinema system. You could then have the best of both worlds, or do you WANT to get rid of the hifi system?

I’m in the same boat - big speakers, Power amps and two Audiolab processors for the music system (8000CDQ which has HT bypass for music, and a 8200AP for cinema) then onto power amps. The amount of calls I get from family when the sound won’t work is tedious. :D
 
I always had the full cinema experience for many years, with constant uogrades. I even managed to have totally separate 2 and 7.1 channel systems in a 2.4m square room (I was very proud of how I did that). I moved house from UK to Madeira and now just have a quality stereo system. There is a tv between the speakers and I could use a soundbar, but I’m not sure I’ll bother.
 
yes i got fed up with trying to integrate the two systems some years ago. now just got a reasonable denon AV amp into some nice amphion argon one as left and right front speakers . these are delightful to hear . these sit on top of the superb eatons which continue to sound fab with class A monoblocks . a good compromise although i have though about a very decent AV receiver to replace the lot but at the moment just leaving as is
P1070859 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/, on Flickr
 
Separate AV and HiFi rooms works best here.

If I had to have both systems in the same room, I would settle for 2:1 AV sound reproduction and just have one system.
 
Separate AV and HiFi rooms works best here.

If I had to have both systems in the same room, I would settle for 2:1 AV sound reproduction and just have one system.

Yes I have had my projector set-up connected in to my 2:1 for years. Sounds pretty good, but I guess you dont get the surround sound additions...
 
Speakers behind the screen small Klipsch L/C/R + 2x18inch Subs
rcc-122-in-theater-plane-on-screen__large_full.jpg


klipsch-bts__large_full.jpg
 
First a little bit of history: I was an early adopter of home cinema, plugging a Yamaha pro-logic decoder into my integrated, adding to my speaker count, and using a stereo VCR as a video source. Then came DVD, so I got one with a 5.1 decoder and of course I needed a receiver that could take the 5.1 chanel inputs and got a cheap Sherwood from RS. This was home cinema bliss - vibrating sofa, things spinning around the room - great. Then I played music on it - dreadful. IMPORTANT - my home cinema expectations are more easily satisfied than my music ones. What followed was expensive Arcam Alpha 10s, Dave modules and more.

To cut a long story short, over twenty years on, I seems to have downgraded in stages (Exposure 30202SD/Marantz NR1509 via AV8/7 channel Audiolab and Yamaha RX-A2010). I am thinking now about giving up this crusade and getting a Sonos ARC and sub (I already have Sonos speakers I can use as rears), so for about 1600 quid I can fix all this home cinema nonsense to my satisfaction, while also allowing the rest of the household to play what they want with a simple to use app. This will completely liberate my music system.

The alternative would be to keep my current speaker setup and replace the Marantz/Exposure setup (I like the Exposure but the Marantz not so much) with some Arcam at around 3000-4000 quid, then if I want Atmos I will need to spend that again on all new speakers to keep the synergy. When I think what sort of music system I could get for that sort of money (see the important bit above) with the bonus of moving the speakers around the room (not either side of the telly) the Sonos sounds very attractive. I also hate having a huge centre speaker, great though it is.

Has anybody around here done this? Thought about it? Done it and regreted it? I am probably more interested in critiques of my methodology and thought process than any specifics about hardware. Any other ideas?

I fancy getting back into the music side of this hobby and just letting the home cinema take care of itself.
I too was an early adopter having had cinema sound since the early nineties. Started with a Yamaha dsp-e300 powering the centre and rears with a Creek integrated powering the front. Without all the details downsized to Onkyo AVR with full,size speakers but no hifi then downsized to Samsung AVP with tiny speakers and sub. Hated this so swapped it all for a Denon AVR with MA BR1/BRC speakers and Epson projector. This is the best cinema sound I’ve ever had. Added a hifi streamer, amp and speakers and kept the two systems in the same room but separate. I’ve got the best of both worlds and the only compromise is two sets of speakers L and R. The biggest mistake I made was sacrificing the hifi. The thought of integrating the two systems now just feels wrong. I’m now where I want to be and won’t be changing anything.
 
separate home theatre and music. I still use pc based windows 7 media center with media browser for the films and tv. otherwise standard hifi system
 
Yes I have had my projector set-up connected in to my 2:1 for years. Sounds pretty good, but I guess you dont get the surround sound additions...

yup. needs must and all that…

the AV system is 5:1 in the TV room with pmc DB1’s and a monitor audio sub, yamaha av amp - been like that for years and I can’t see us changing anything till the av amp. dies.

In the 1980’s I ran the VCR through a Leak amp with the adjustable matrix thingy, 2 pairs of speakers attached- at the time it sounded spectacular, didn’t need a sub as the large Leak speakers had plenty of woofer. Sounded great when Nicam came along later as well.
 
A good stereo is all you need for movies. We run a projector and the sound through Isobariks and it is awesome. Better than the cinema.

If you want to run surround fair enough but quality trumps quantity every time. Two channels of great beats seven channels of average. And seven channels of great is not cheap.
 
I have no intention of giving up on integrating both....
I have a SOtM SMS-200 streamer connected to a Mytek Manhattan II DAC/Pre feeding ATC50A speakers. On top of this I run an Anthem surround processor which is connected to an additional ATC 50A for centre channel, an ATC C4 sub and ATC 20-2A rear speakers (currently only running 5.1). The Anthem is connected to the Mytek via analog XLR connections and the Mytek volume control is bypassed via this input. If I decide to add the additional speakers for Atmos then I would add ATC speakers again, just from a synergy perspective. I can also use the system for surround music via the Anthem, although I don't listen to surround music very much. I am not prepared to compromise the 2 channel setup for the save of surround sound....
 
A good stereo is all you need for movies. We run a projector and the sound through Isobariks and it is awesome. Better than the cinema.

If you want to run surround fair enough but quality trumps quantity every time. Two channels of great beats seven channels of average. And seven channels of great is not cheap.
If you enjoy films & go to the cinema, you'd be pretty miffed if all you got was stereo sound. Likewise, if you're a movie junkie, you can have a home multichannel system that trumps anything you get at the cinema, but no, it isn't cheap. We run a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos system, integrated with the stereo (Naim DBLs, Accuphase pre/power etc.) which works superbly in our room. We've a large collection of movies on disk, and wouldn't dream of being without our movie sound system. The stereo sounds pretty damn fine on its own too.

If I had a pound for every time I've read someone bemoaning the fact that bolting on a processor & a few speakers to their stereo and being disappointed with the results I'd have lots of pounds. It does require a considerable investment in both time & money, but then each to his own…
 
If you enjoy films & go to the cinema, you'd be pretty miffed if all you got was stereo sound.

Not if you had stereo sound from Quad ESL's fed with near zero distortion, the Quads fill the room with sound from top to bottom and front to back.
You might be more miffed with the cinema sound.

As MrP. said above 2 really good speakers beat 18 mediocre ones every day.

The AV industry loves to sell you AV processors with 300 connections and 12 DAC's inside then 8 amplifiers and 18 speakers, box swappers paradise.

If you compare the quality of all AV DAC's they are 10 years behind the 2 channel market.

I was at the Bridgewater Hall for the Agnes Obel concert a couple of weeks ago and was a bit miffed how crap her PA system sounded compared to my system.
The Bridgewater Hall is a dedicated theatre for sound.
 
Not if you had stereo sound from Quad ESL's fed with near zero distortion, the Quads fill the room with sound from top to bottom and front to back.
You might be more miffed with the cinema sound.

As MrP. said above 2 really good speakers beat 18 mediocre ones every day.

The AV industry loves to sell you AV processors with 300 connections and 12 DAC's inside then 8 amplifiers and 18 speakers, box swappers paradise.

If you compare the quality of all AV DAC's they are 10 years behind the 2 channel market.

I was at the Bridgewater Hall for the Agnes Obel concert a couple of weeks ago and was a bit miffed how crap her PA system sounded compared to my system.
The Bridgewater Hall is a dedicated theatre for sound.
But who wants to use mediocre speakers? And no matter how good they are, two speakers cannot hope to emulate good quality multichannel sound.
 
Thanks for all the replies - some interesting contributions there. But basically nobody has ditched their combined music/cinema system and bought an Arc etc (or is admitting to it). To answer some of the points, if I go this way the cinema and music systems will be in the same room (about 25sqm and pretty square) and the music speakers relocated to either side of the fireplace rather than either side of the TV.

Surround sound is not something I'd want to give up. Sure, movies can sound great in decent stereo, but I can't unhear, for example, the rivets spinning around the room in Das Boot, and then there is the vibrating sofa when the decides I need woken up.

I live in striking distance of two JL stores and goodness how many Richer Sounds, so I should be able to get a demo of the Sonos gear, which I'll get sorted soon. Getting way ahead of myself I was wondering what I'd do next with the music system, and going active stereo is appealing, and my local dealer does ATC, so the Paul_Riordan post above has my got my interest. I could bring back the AV8 as a pre until I can get something better.

So the plan now is to get a Demo of the Sonos stuff, listen to some decent actives, decide on a budget and get an idea of where I want to be in a few years. I can't help but think that since I had the AV8 feeding 5 channels of Alpha 10s I've been downgrading ever since, and that maybe a Sonos system would be a downgrade too far.
 
Listened to an Arc in JL (just the Arc, no sub or rears but enough to form an opinion) and really not a replacement for a decent surround system with proper amps and speakers. No surprise really.
 


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