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Fascism is back

gavreid said:
Fascism is a movement of the middle classes, it depends upon smashing organised labour. Italy has between 12 and 15 million TU members, a much larger density than in the UK.
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I suspect it is one of the few areas that has actually broken free of class barriers. Lots of upper and middle-class idiots following Farage, the current Tory party etc. Lots of working class people following Trump, Yaxley Lennon, Le Pen etc. It is an ideology for the dumb who feel threatened and displaced. A loser ideology for people so bitter and unsuccessful in life they need others to blame. It has certainly shifted from the working class football thug rage I remember from the NF.
 
Nero said:
The world is too complicated. Those with simple solutions win every time, for a time. We just have to hope they don’t do too much damage before normality resumes.
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I think that's spot-on. Remember how Jimmy Carter (an intelligent man who'd been an engineering officer on a nuclear submarine) was beaten by Ronnie Reagan, a second-rate movie actor, simply because Carter saw the world as a complicated place, whereas Reagan saw it as a simple place, and his sunny disposition with simple slogans ("morning in America") and simple solutions won out. People are confused and bothered, and then someone with all the answers pops up and says, "We can fix it, no problems!" When fantasy collides with reality, fantasy invariably comes off second-best, but it's the time taken for this to happen that's the problem.
 
Tony L said:
I suspect it is one of the few areas that has actually broken free of class barriers. Lots of upper and middle-class idiots following Farage, the current Tory party etc. Lots of working class people following Trump, Yaxley Lennon, Le Pen etc. It is an ideology for the dumb who feel threatened and displaced. A loser ideology for people so bitter and unsuccessful in life they need others to blame. It has certainly shifted from the working class football thug rage I remember from the NF.
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Striking is the (initial) defence against fascism.
 
tones said:
I think that's spot-on. Remember how Jimmy Carter (an intelligent man who'd been an engineering officer on a nuclear submarine) was beaten by Ronnie Reagan, a second-rate movie actor, simply because Carter saw the world as a complicated place, whereas Reagan saw it as a simple place, and his sunny disposition with simple slogans ("morning in America") and simple solutions won out. People are confused and bothered, and then someone with all the answers pops up and says, "We can fix it, no problems!" When fantasy collides with reality, fantasy invariably comes off second-best, but it's the time taken for this to happen that's the problem.
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Unfortunately for Carter, the only 'simple' solution he opted for went terribly wrong. I'm not sure he would have lost the election without this.
 
Tony L said:
Bricks and bottles work too.
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Sure, depends on the balance. When there's 100 of them and 10 of you then you run away, when it's 100 each you chuck your bricks and bottles from the other side of the street and when there's a 100 of you and 10 of them then you kick their heads in...
 
Its the direct result of the internet where the have not's realise what they are missing out upon and also want a slice of the pie.

Arthur C Clark predicted this in one of his books. So did George Orwell in his book "1984" with his thought police and the all encompasing monitoring of everyone to control the population.
 
Cheese said:
No.
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Really? You don’t support resistance to fascism? That says a heck of a lot about your politics! Thankfully the people of France, Poland etc felt very differently when it walked in to their towns. Fighting fascism is always acceptable. There are no exceptions.
 
Cheese said:
Tony, oh please. You perfectly know what I mean.
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I honestly don’t. I’m an anti-fascist. I believe in fighting against fascism. It should not be platformed. It should not be normalised. It should always be met on the streets by both the young and older generations who remember who it killed last time. No exceptions. Zero tolerance.
 
Tony L said:
I suspect it is one of the few areas that has actually broken free of class barriers. Lots of upper and middle-class idiots following Farage, the current Tory party etc. Lots of working class people following Trump, Yaxley Lennon, Le Pen etc. It is an ideology for the dumb who feel threatened and displaced. A loser ideology for people so bitter and unsuccessful in life they need others to blame. It has certainly shifted from the working class football thug rage I remember from the NF.
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As @gavreid says, fascism is a revolt of the (lower) middle classes. The shopkeeper, small business person- for example a plumber or the owner of a small IT firm who have worked all their lives and sunk all their resources into a business- who sees their livelihood being eroded and their lifes work go down the drain. In situations of grave economic crises, such as we are currently experiencing, these people live in fear of going under. They lack the protection of trade unions available to employees, and they do not wield the power of the state like our rulers proper. They are caught in the middle and can become attracted to fascism as providing a like minded mass movement they otherwise lack.

Yes, elements of the disaffected working class can be recruited, but the boneheads serve a limited, if useful, purpose. Once Hitler had used the Brownshirt SA to smash opposition, he liquidated them as he feared a rival base of power in the Nazi party and their street fighting thuggery was too crude to serve his purpose further. Of course fascism claims to transcend class and masquerades as patriotic and nationalist, but it is firmly of the middle classes. Our rulers prefer to rule by consent rather that coercion, but at decisive political junctures, they will not hesitate to wield fascism as a weapon to preserve their power, privilege and profits.
 
Cheese said:
Unfortunately for Carter, the only 'simple' solution he opted for went terribly wrong. I'm not sure he would have lost the election without this.
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That most certainly was a factor, but I think that the overall Carter impression (life is complicated and involved and has sometimes unfortunate consequences for your wallet) versus the Reagan impression (life is simple and uncomplicated for the US colossus and a chicken in every pot and a full tank of gas for next to nothing is your birthright) was also a major factor.
 
tones said:
That most certainly was a factor, but I think that the overall Carter impression (life is complicated and involved and has sometimes unfortunate consequences for your wallet) versus the Reagan impression (life is simple and uncomplicated for the US colossus and a chicken in every pot and a full tank of gas for next to nothing is your birthright) was also a major factor.
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The engineer vs the salesman.
 
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