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Post-Trump: III (decline, further tantrums, legal proceedings, book deals etc)

There is a section in that old Espionage Act of ours that could trip Trump up easily:
"Espionage Act, Title 1, Section 1:
(e) whoever, being intrusted
with or having lawful possession or control of any document, ... or information, relating to the
national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be
removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in
violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed,
shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by imprisonment for not more than two years, or both."
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If the information you were intrusted (sic) with winds up in the wrong place, that's enough. Intent to distribute not an element of this section. So, very easy to prove. Multiple counts for multiple instances I presume....

I do expect that distribution is also going to be shown in some cases.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
Interesting interview between Michael Isikoff and Mary McCord, who was chief of the Department of Justice National Security Division under Obama. Points out that there are two laws that might be in play here: public records laws, and the Espionage Act which dates back to WW1. Details implications of what we know at this point.
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Another thing is Trump will obviously have a copy of the FBI search warrant and despite his grandstanding and outrage has chosen to be silent about its precise scope (e.g. Espionage Act or whatever).
 
I feel sorry for Merrick Garland, who falls into the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. Any action against Trump, no matter how legitimate, will inflame his supporters, yet Garland has to do his job, indeed, dare not not do it, otherwise it's a recognition that Trump really could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and get away with it. Garland has been the subject of much impatience, but one has to build a case that will stand up, and that takes time. I can only hope that whatever it is happens before the mid-terms, because, if the Republicans win, they will shut down the whole thing and sweep it under the carpet - and probably institute an investigation into the "stolen" election, or Hunter Biden, or both.

I can only hope that the fact that the Democrats have just made some useful legislation that helps normal people will register, at least with reasonable people.
 
tones said:
I feel sorry for Merrick Garland, who falls into the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. Any action against Trump, no matter how legitimate, will inflame his supporters, yet Garland has to do his job, indeed, dare not not do it, otherwise it's a recognition that Trump really could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and get away with it. Garland has been the subject of much impatience, but one has to build a case that will stand up, and that takes time. I can only hope that whatever it is happens before the mid-terms, because, if the Republicans win, they will shut down the whole thing and sweep it under the carpet - and probably institute an investigation into the "stolen" election, or Hunter Biden, or both.

I can only hope that the fact that the Democrats have just made some useful legislation that helps normal people will register, at least with reasonable people.
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Depends what the evidence is. Especially around foreign actors and outright criminality.

I think there is a lot of hype around what support remains for Trump, the noise coming from pretty much the usual suspects who would support him whatever he did and some Republican politicians who need his endorsement for their own survival as things stand. The kind who would drop him in an instant if it suddenly became expedient. Those people do not make up enough to get Trump elected and quite honestly if the rest can't come out against him after what they have already seen, I'm sorry to say they deserve him. Rather like the idiots who bought Johnson's lies.
 
SteveS1 said:
...quite honestly if the rest can't come out against him after what they have already seen, I'm sorry to say they deserve him. Rather like the idiots who bought Johnson's lies.
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Amen. Problem is, as we have seen in the present Tory leadership contest, a substantial proportion of people want to be lied to, rather than face reality. Remember how the Bush Jr administration made their own reality (they said)?

In any contest between reality and fantasy, fantasy always comes off second-best, but an enormous amount of damage can be done before this happens.
 
tones said:
Amen. Problem is, as we have seen in the present Tory leadership contest, a substantial proportion of people want to be lied to, rather than face reality. Remember how the Bush Jr administration made their own reality (they said)?

In any contest between reality and fantasy, fantasy always comes off second-best, but an enormous amount of damage can be done before this happens.
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I'm struggling to see how a timidly reluctant AG, a Trump appointed FBI Director and a Federal Judge sympathetic to Trump have just searched his gaff at considerable political risk without a significant level of evidence.

I may be wrong and if so, I will don the stale loaf and you may cast your rotten vegetables accordingly.
 
tones said:
I can only hope that whatever it is happens before the mid-terms, because, if the Republicans win, they will shut down the whole thing and sweep it under the carpet
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They cannot shutdown Merrick Garland and the Department of Justice without winning the presidency. Although they would shutdown the Jan6 committee, so that has to get most of its investigations done by November.

They can though make life difficult for Garland though with all sorts of committee appearances, oversight, etc., hence the fatuous "preserve your documents and clear you calendar" statement from the odious Kevin McCarthy. And they could use that oversight to get information from him about what the DoJ is doing and then likely leak it to Trump and/or the media.

In public hearings, Garland would of course just site long standing DoJ policy of not talking about ongoing investigations (imagine the sad eyes of Jim Comey here) although who knows what would happen in closed hearings.

tones said:
I can only hope that the fact that the Democrats have just made some useful legislation that helps normal people will register, at least with reasonable people.
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They have got a lot done, relatively speaking, so with those legislative wins, Roe vs Wade, Jan6 hearings they have more of a chance at keeping power than ever seemed likely 12 to 18 months ago. It's also very hard to say what the polling means for a variety of reasons although the Kansas vote is very encouraging.

If I was a betting man, I would say they lose the House but keep the Senate. Although I'd want odds as really I don't think anyone has any idea.
 
SteveS1 said:
I'm struggling to see how a timidly reluctant AG, a Trump appointed FBI Director and a Federal Judge sympathetic to Trump have just searched his gaff at considerable political risk without a significant level of evidence.
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I think "timidly reluctant" is a bit unfair and he seems to me to just be very cautious and "correct". Which, as you say, is kind of required if you are going to raid and charge a former president.

Although the big advantage of presidential records charges is that there will very likely literally be physical documents which is always a much easier sell politically than, say, witness testimony about conspiracy charges. It's a lot easier for the FBI director as well as it gives him excellent political cover.
 
SteveS1 said:
I'm struggling to see how a timidly reluctant AG, a Trump appointed FBI Director and a Federal Judge sympathetic to Trump have just searched his gaff at considerable political risk without a significant level of evidence.

I may be wrong and if so, I will don the stale loaf and you may cast your rotten vegetables accordingly.
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You would hope probable cause is still a thing in the US.
 
And another law...seems we have a Foreign Intelligence and Surveillance Act, that also prohibits unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents. In a bit of karma that looks ready to bite, Trump himself signed an amendment to this act that included the following:
SEC. 202. INCREASED PENALTY FOR UNAUTHORIZED REMOVAL AND
RETENTION OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS OR MATERIAL.
Section 1924(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended
by striking ‘‘one year’’ and inserting ‘‘five years’’.
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Tony L said:
Another thing is Trump will obviously have a copy of the FBI search warrant and despite his grandstanding and outrage has chosen to be silent about its precise scope (e.g. Espionage Act or whatever).
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He could even make public the list the FBI will have left, of any found items they took with them. Don't hold your breath.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
He could even make public the list the FBI will have left, of any found items they took with them. Don't hold your breath.
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Indeed. I see from people on Twitter quoting his ‘Truth Central’ site he’s already seeding planted evidence theories. He’s clearly screwed, he clearly knows he’s screwed, but he also understands just how thick and radicalised his base is so is likely to go out with a real fight. My fear is there will be quite a few dead before this is really over.
 
Tony L said:
Indeed. I see from people on Twitter quoting his ‘Truth Central’ site he’s already seeding planted evidence theories. He’s clearly screwed, he clearly knows he’s screwed, but he also understands just how thick and radicalised his base is so is likely to go out with a real fight. My fear is there will be quite a few dead before this is really over.
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Yep, Civil War II, hopefully shorter and less bloody than the first one. The majority is against it, of course. The key is to let the Trumpists do outrageous bloody things before doing outrageous bloody things to them, but then to do them.
 
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