What cable and sockets in your dedicated radial?

[Pterodactyl]

I have 3 curious children aged 10 and up.

Including their friends and cousins etc. a lot of curious children will visit our house over the coming years, so safety is a real concern in the design of this circuit.

 

[Ian G]

I have 3 curious children aged 10 and up.

Including their friends and cousins etc. a lot of curious children will visit our house over the coming years, so safety is a real concern in the design of this circuit.

That's why I get a bit hot under the collar with the amount of crap advice bandied around regarding electrical matters.

 

[Chops54]

The shutter is lifted by insertion of the earth pin on the plug top, without this feature it was possible to push wires or nails etc directly into the live terminal within the socket, this lead to several deaths of curious children.

Indeed and that’s why I use interlocking commando sockets. There is a mechanism within the socket so it cannot be switched on unless the plug is inserted and once the socket is switched on the plug cannot be removed until the socket is switched off.

 

[Pterodactyl]

That's why I get a bit hot under the collar with the amount of crap advice bandied around regarding electrical matters.

I enjoy learning about what people have done to create audio circuits and what effects this had.

I have little or no knowledge of or interest in electrical laws, regs and safety (beyond briefing my children on the basic dangers of mixing leccy and water, sticking nails into sockets, etc).

If an electrician wired up my house in a dangerous way, I probably wouldn't even realize it in most cases, so I just have to rely on the electrician to only do what is safe and legal.

But, yes, it would obviously be awful if someone read a thread and DIY-ed something dangerous and there was an accident.

When I was a kid I was cutting some cardboard on the floor at night with a pair of Fiskars (scissors with orange plastic handles).

I cut through a lamp cord under the cardboard on the carpet, and there was a burst of flame and both blades of the scissors were melted and blackened.

Luckily my fingers were only on the orange plastic handles.

We kept using those Fiskars for years and the melt holes were a useful reminder of the power of electricity.

 

[Ian G]

I enjoy learning about what people have done to create audio circuits and what effects this had.

I have little or no knowledge of or interest in electrical laws, regs and safety (beyond briefing my children on the basic dangers of mixing leccy and water, sticking nails into sockets, etc).

If an electrician wired up my house in a dangerous way, I probably wouldn't even realize it in most cases, so I just have to rely on the electrician to only do what is safe and legal.

But, yes, it would obviously be awful if someone read a thread and DIY-ed something dangerous and there was an accident.

When I was a kid I was cutting some cardboard on the floor at night with a pair of Fiskars (scissors with orange plastic handles).

I cut through a lamp cord under the cardboard on the carpet, and there was a burst of flame and both blades of the scissors were melted and blackened.

Luckily my fingers were only on the orange plastic handles.

We kept using those Fiskars for years and the melt holes were a useful reminder of the power of electricity.

you managed the close up yet ?

 

[Pterodactyl]

you managed the close up yet ?

Just about to cycle home and see if there are any clues to how the wire gets from the meter to the house CU.

Is the isolator the white plastic unit that blocks off the right side of my outdoor meter cabinet?

 

[Ian G]

Just about to cycle home and see if there are any clues to how the wire gets from the meter to the house CU.

Is the isolator the white plastic unit that blocks off the right side of my outdoor meter cabinet?

Yes the plastic thing bottom left, try to get a clear shot of the isolator or whatever it is. Looking at the photo I would presume the tails and CPC run into ducting and under the floor coming up below the consumer unit under the stairs.

 

[Blackmetalboon]

Yes the plastic thing bottom left, try to get a clear shot of the isolator or whatever it is. Looking at the photo I would presume the tails and CPC run into ducting and under the floor coming up below the consumer unit under the stairs.

It appears to be a C60A DP MCB to provide OCP for the tails to the DB.

 

[Ian G]

It appears to be a C60A DP MCB to provide OCP for the tails to the DB.

Well spotted, I couldn't make anything out.

 

[Si74]

Separate consumer unit with 16 strand Kimber cable out and returned to a floor mounted U.S. double outlet socket. Initial sparks wouldn't listen and isolated zilch. Guy wiring in our new shower did and now rigged that switching off the main consumer unit still leaves power to the cu for the system. To my ears, a considerable improvement.

 

[Pterodactyl]

It appears to be a C60A DP MCB to provide OCP for the tails to the DB.

Jeepers!
What all dem acronyms stand for?

MCB = Miniature Circuit Breaker is an electromechanical device designed to protect an electric circuit from over-current.

 

[Pterodactyl]

16 strand Kimber cable out and returned

Can you say which gauge and type of Kimber cable?

Russ Andrews in Kendal is the sole UK distributor/retailer for Kimber cables AFAIK.

They sell 2 grades of in-wall Kimble cable - Expensive and Silly.

Does 'out and return' mean that you have an audio ring circuit, not a radial?

Was there a reason you chose a ring?

Russ Andrews are also 'ring lovers'!

When you say your first (recalcitrant) electrician 'isolated zilch', does this mean that he somehow connected the audio circuit to other house circuits?

[I do like the phrase 'isolating zilch' - I may use this as an epitaph.]

 

[Pterodactyl]

the tails and CPC run into ducting and under the floor coming up below the consumer unit under the stairs.

"CPC stands for Circuit Protective Conductor, which is basically the earth wire for the circuit and forms part of a system to join together all exposed conductive (metal) parts and connect them to the main earthing terminal."

I can see no clue as to what route they took from the meter to the house CU.

(I cannot easily upload the photos I took to pfm).

Would it be normal for a building company in 2014 to have taken both 25mm meter tails all the way to the CU (which is about 7m) in the form of 25mm cables?

I don't know what is allowed under building regs, but the logical routes for the cable include:

• via a duct in or under the concrete floor?
• between the room ceiling and the first floor floorboards?
• somehow coming around through the walls, although no surface trunking is visible, so what part of the walls would they channel it in?

If it does come up through the floor into the stud wall of the under-stairs cupboard, how would an electrician access the fat cable there - by cutting a hole in the stud wall or through the CU itself?

 

[Ian G]

I really don't understand what madness infects the audiofool, despite asking the question most appear to ignore the advice from people who actually know what they are talking about (Blackmetalballon) and, as in my case, are still active in this field (apologies to Bmb if you still are) and follow the opinions and half baked advice from those suffering ADI, Audio Delusional Insanity. Coblers to the safety or integrity of the install if you believe your 30 year old speakers and £500 valve amp and digital streamer will be singing like a lark. After the 'highly instructive' post from Si74 you can sense the fervent anticipation for audio nirvana in the following post. I have therefore decided to remove my hat and replace it with a towel.
I shall continue to follow this post, purely out of morbid curiosity and the laughs.

 

[Ian G]

"CPC stands for Circuit Protective Conductor, which is basically the earth wire for the circuit and forms part of a system to join together all exposed conductive (metal) parts and connect them to the main earthing terminal."

I can see no clue as to what route they took from the meter to the house CU.

(I cannot easily upload the photos I took to pfm).

Would it be normal for a building company in 2014 to have taken both 25mm meter tails all the way to the CU (which is about 7m) in the form of 25mm cables?

I don't know what is allowed under building regs, but the logical routes for the cable include:

• via a duct in or under the concrete floor?
• between the room ceiling and the first floor floorboards?
• somehow coming around through the walls, although no surface trunking is visible, so what part of the walls would they channel it in?

If it does come up through the floor into the stud wall of the under-stairs cupboard, how would an electrician access the fat cable there - by cutting a hole in the stud wall or through the CU itself?

Yes cut a hole below the consumer unit, very carefully

 

[Pterodactyl]

What field is it that you are active in?

Threadcrapping?

Have you ever installed or owned an audio circuit?

 

[Ian G]

Myth dispelling when on here.

However I get paid working as an electrician, domestic and commercial and have installed many many circuits.

By an audio circuit I guess you mean a radial or ring providing power to some audio equipment ? Which is a good indication of you level of understanding.

I have installed a radial specifically for my hifi actually, but for specific reasons.

I was attempting to assist you as can be seen by my previous posts, even answering your belated question sent after your query drooling over Kimber cable. As per many others you appear more enamoured of fiction rather than fact.
Apologies if I've upset you.

 

[Pterodactyl]

it might be worth considering installing radial circuits using 15amp unstitched socket outlets with a separate circuit for each socket.

Do you know of anyone (on pfm or elsewhere) who has done this?

 

[nobeone]

I am long out of date, was City and Guilds 16th edition plus amendments qualified, but not a practising electrician. There are two things that matter here: safety, and meeting current regulations (which is the same thing really). Get a qualified and practising Electrician, NICEIC approved, to come and have a look, advise on what they are able to do and what they are not.

Since you have Naim, you may wish to stick to the JV era Naim formula of a separate radial circuit in standard T&E. Forget Russ and his stuff, it will not help you, and it is likely to cause a sensible electrician to back away slowly. Discuss with the electrician your needs and let them propose how to wire it up and which parts to use, if you find a good spark they will advise on what you can and can't do within the regulations and will happily assist with options, including keeping cabling away from speakers and speaker cables if that is what floats your boat. The world is full of 50Hz and 60Hz EM fields, I would try not to worry about this too much . There are rules about where you can run cables and they will know this and can help. If you have intermittent hum from transformers then you can resolve this with a hefty DC blocker and hydra arrangement later.

Trying to discuss this via a forum (perhaps especially the green forum) where there are international contributors, and UK well-meaning but totally under qualified folk with advice, is not a good idea. This comment does not apply to those trying to assist that are clearly qualified, but a general comment.

It needs to be standard practice, well covered by the regulations, willingly installed, tested and signed off by a NICEIC approved electrician. If not it is not a good idea. I believe you should think of your safety, then house resale issues, then your audio concerns. I hope this helps.

 

[Mike Reed]

I have installed a radial specifically for my hifi actually, but for specific reasons.

Would love to hear those reasons, Ian. Surely they can't be for the pursuit of better s.q., considering your acceptable and perfectly justified cynicism (why not?). Is that radial detached from your domestic c.u. or slotted into it? Not sure why the tone is degenerating here. Jimdog's domestic installation is well beyond my ken (and most others, I feel), although Blackmetalbaloon may have a handle on it.

It appears to be a C60A DP MCB to provide OCP for the tails to the DB.

You wouldn't care to initial those findings by any chance?