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Tannoy vs Harbeth

jtgofish said:
Tannoys have those very revealing compression drivers.So you really need very good preamp and power amps or integrated valve amps for them to sound their best.They will reveal that most SS and class D amps sound a bit coarse in the treble.If you hear people say they find the treble a bit harsh or coloured it is because they have heard them with the wrong amp.Harbeth /BBC types are going to be far more forgiving.I like both but achieve the highest satisfaction from Tannoys .The importance of the dual concentric system in timing and phase coherence and its point source nature makes for a musically convincing presentation and in combination with higher efficiency and hence dynamics combine to produce a more musically involving experience.The Harbeths are musically involving too but in a different way.One in which pleasing tone is the major factor. I also own some refurbished Gale 401s which are musically involving because they have boogie and groove like nothing else I have heard.
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you could put ANY class d amp on my tannoy eatons and they would sound beautifully smooth , lovely treble .had some icepower monos on them for 2 years and lovely warm and natural sound .the f5 class a monoblocks have more bite and dynamism though and the speakers just keep getting better and better . I have hypersensitive hearing and cant stand sharp treble or courseness
 
Tony L said:
Obviously I wasn’t comparing like for like as 15” Tannoys of any era are in a whole different price class to SHL5s, but for me the difference was scale, dynamics, realism, heft etc, plus more importantly there was something I did not get on with in the Harbeth’s crossover region. I could hear something I didn’t like between the plastic cone and metal tweeters around 3.5kHz or so, right in the vocal sibilance range where our ears are so critical. I seem very sensitive to crossovers and phase for some reason, but when I pointed to it others they heard it too. The Tannoy’s colouration is far more benign for my priorities and even after a decade or more doesn’t bug me in the slightest. It just doesn’t get in the way for me. I’ve owned two pairs of Harbeths, C7ES and SHL5 and they both had the same flaw for me. Crossover region aside I really liked them both. If I ever need to downsize to one system I’ll likely end up with a mid-sized BBC box, but I’d be looking at maybe the Graham 5/9 as they sound seamless from what I’ve heard, as do real vintage BBC designs like the LS3/5A, LS5/8 etc.
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I agree about the metal-dome tweeter, it’s why I chose the Stirling Broadcast LS3/6s.
 
Tony L said:
Don’t agree. Tannoys were Decca’s main monitors for all the legendary SXL series titles and primarily as a jazz fan I love them. They can stick Coltrane or Miles in the room with me like no other speaker I’ve heard, but they do so without the hyper-detail and distraction so many modern high-end speakers bring. They have a remarkable balance of ‘big’, ‘real’, ‘easy to listen to’, which for me is is the key.

Tannoys certainly have their problems too. With the vintage ones most Tannoy fans gravitate to pair matching really is a huge challenge, but they are just so good somehow one tends to ignore the flaws. I can’t imagine ever moving from them now, though I would love to find a mint perfectly pair-balanced pair of 15” Reds. That would be my finishing point for sure.
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I'm a rock and jazz fan and bass player myself so my vote goes for large Tannoys, no doubt.
Nevertheless, if I was a cantatas or small bands folks singers fan, Harbeth would be my number one choice.
 
hifinutt said:
you could put ANY class d amp on my tannoy eatons and they would sound beautifully smooth , lovely treble .had some icepower monos on them for 2 years and lovely warm and natural sound .
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I second this. I had a bit of a revelation recently with a Class D all in one player - the Elipson Music Centre - that I bought for my second system. I tried it with the Eaton Legacy for the hell of it and was really surprised. It's an ICE module but only 60W/120W. It is indeed very smooth and doesn't lose out that much to EL34s for mid-range richness. I'm a Class D skeptic so it was a pleasant surprise. The one area I think Class D falls down on is the sense of air and space - an intangible quality in treble response that is really hard to pin down and isn't that relevant on a lot of recordings. But then on some recordings it's noticeably absent for me. I've no idea why this should be the case, but I wonder if it is why KEF, for example, use Class D power on the woofer and Class A/B on the tweeter in their active designs. There may be a more banal technical reason but I'd be interested to know.

Class D on my 70s Eatons was not so smooth, but was surprisingly grippy. The ICE power doesn't make them sound over-damped.
 
p.s all these generalisations about Harbeths vs Tannoy and types of music need to be thrown in the bin. Way off the mark, sorry.

Legacy Tannoys are quite different to most of the early designs, with different amplification demands. And the tulip wave guide is rather different to pepper-pot. But all these matters have been discussed at length elsewhere.
 
Yup Im with nut and elephant.
Legacy tannoys are a different animal.
My hit list ended up thinking that somewhere in the middle was the perfect speaker. Harbeths are just too limited in the bass and that metal dome tweeter is wrong. Tannoys take their 'here is everything on the record' a tad too seriously.
I did wonder if the bigger harbeth monitors might fall half way, but never bothered due to the cost.

I think the 15" OLD Tannoys are closest to being domestically right, if you have the space. if not, then the other extreme...BBC designs from Falcon and etc are similarly close, if you can live without that tannoy bass.
Which i can't now. dammit.
 
Really interesting reading.
Yes just came from the Falcon Gold Badge LS3/5A. Lovely speakers, I enjoyed them very much. The new room can take something a little bigger hence the new search. Very familiar with various Harbeths - and found the SHL5 plus and XD to be really good, more air and scale than other Harbeths IME. M30.2 XD also very good. A little softer but very open compared to previous models. I’d love to try the C7XD - perhaps could be my perfect speaker (SHL5 look a little dominating in the new space) but was thinking the Legacy Cheviot, whilst larger in some dimensions) they sit lower and might fit my room nicely. I just fear they’ll lose the open, natural sound. I know I need to try some but it’s a lot of faffing for a home loan, especially for such big boxes, and then there’s the challenge of trying the right Tannoy when I’m totally new to that world. Saying that, I’m very intrigued by the Tannoy design ethos and would love to try them.
 
hifinutt said:
I just fear they’ll lose the open, natural sound. Ha not a chance .... they are incredibly natural sounding !!! .
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The Tannoy Legacy Ardens, at least, are definitely less ‘open sounding’ than the Harbeth P3ESR SEs. That was a big surprise to me, and the overall approach to musical reproduction worked better to my ears, which is one reason I sold the Ardens on. Another was their size. And, finally, a feeling that they gave their best at higher listening levels than I prefer, which pushed me to the Harbs. The only thing the Arden does better is quantity (bigger sounding) and extension (goes deeper). The addition of a properly positioned and EQ’d sub gives me significantly deeper bass than the Ardens could manage, and - to my ears/in my room - a usefully better all-round sound.

I really rated the Ardens, but I think there’s a touch of magic in the P3s…
 
So after years of umming and erring I finally took the plunge and purchased a pair of 15” MG’s in Lancaster cabinets.

I’d had a pair of Proac Studio 2’s for 20+ years and was more than happy with them but as I approached my ‘Jazz’ years I wanted to go down the Tannoy/Valve route.

Obviously I knew that both pairs of speakers are very different creatures and in a perfect world I’d love 2 different setups but living in a smallish flat in London doesn’t really allow.

I can only describe it in filmic terms. Proac’s are Oled/Blueray compared to Tannoy 70mm Panavision.

Well recordedWell pressed vinyl sounds divine. Classical/Jazz/Singer Songwriter can be breathtaking. The Proac’s handle dynamics possibly slightly better but overall I’m sticking with Tannoys. I’m running them at the moment with a lovely class A amp but when my Push/Pull monoblocs are recommissioned I think that might be end game territory.

I think the moral of the story is very few speakers can do everything but Tannoys come damn close.
 
@novak The Cheviot can and never will be sounding as open and clear as the Harbeth speakers and the Harbeth will never be as dynamic and hard hitting. Simple physic. Choose based on your preferences, you won't get everything.
 
JTC said:
The Tannoy Legacy Ardens, at least, are definitely less ‘open sounding’ than the Harbeth P3ESR SEs.
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That's really interesting. Do you know how the P3s compare to LS3/5As in that area? "Open sounding" isn't how I'd describe my Spendors.
 
I’ve owned a couple of Harbeth models over the years - P3’s and 30.1 - and while they certainly have some good qualities, ultimately they did not fully satisfy. There is a slightly artificial quality to the sound especially in the smaller model which becomes apparent over time, and it’s hard to get the bass to sound really tuneful and tight. Just IMHE.

Tannoy Legacy speakers sound more like real music to my ears…….
 
tenpercenter said:
I’ve owned a couple of Harbeth models over the years - P3’s and 30.1 - and while they certainly have some good qualities, ultimately they did not fully satisfy. There is a slightly artificial quality to the sound especially in the smaller model which becomes apparent over time, and it’s hard to get the bass to sound really tuneful and tight. Just IMHE.

Tannoy Legacy speakers sound more like real music to my ears…….
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Sounds like you maybe needed a different amp or even stands: with my Luxman, the P3’s bass is as tight and natural as I’ve heard from a box speaker, though obviously not very extended. It doesn’t attempt to do what it can’t- i.e. sub 60Hz, but since the second musical octave basically starts there, you get perfect second octave bass and that (IMHO) might make the bass sound more complete than it truly is since it therefore has full coverage of the first harmonic of the first octave (if that makes any sense).

Mid and up, it’s the better speaker. Not by a huge margin, but it just seems to have captured some magic there.
 
Durmbo said:
That's really interesting. Do you know how the P3s compare to LS3/5As in that area? "Open sounding" isn't how I'd describe my Spendors.
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I had larger Spendors once (forget the model) and they sounded quite disappointing. Depends on your definition of ‘open sounding’ I guess: super-bright, illuminated, artificial sweetener these are not, but in my room a guitar sounds as close to how my Gibson sounds, cymbals are real sounding, the stick articulation of a tom hit is there and they get it all right. Sure, they don’t go head-banger loud (and perhaps fall short if you try) but in their domestic range they’re my second favourite speaker I’ve owned (after my ESL57s which had magic too)… the Ardens come third btw. Then either Adam Compact Classic actives or Audiophysic Avanti IIIs.
 
JTC said:
Sounds like you maybe needed a different amp or even stands: with my Luxman, the P3’s bass is as tight and natural as I’ve heard from a box speaker, though obviously not very extended. It doesn’t attempt to do what it can’t- i.e. sub 60Hz, but since the second musical octave basically starts there, you get perfect second octave bass and that (IMHO) might make the bass sound more complete than it truly is since it therefore has full coverage of the first harmonic of the first octave (if that makes any sense).

Mid and up, it’s the better speaker. Not by a huge margin, but it just seems to have captured some magic there.
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Yep absolutely, equipment and room factors are all really important. I did try a couple of different amps but after a year or so I just admitted to myself they didn’t sound quite right, for me. If I wanted another LS3/5a style box speaker again it would be the Falcons.
 
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This looks like a choice between time alignment and tonal neutrality; between reproducing music as a series of events running in both parallel and in sequence - and a pretty aural picture.

I love playing the music game of let's trip up the Harbeths with something a bit complicated.

In May 2017 I was in Funkstadl restaurant, Munich drinking with a few other Lakewest MDAC2 hopefuls and Mr Westlake himself after visiting the Munich show. This is hardly a place on the beaten track, more one chosen in desperation when Augustiner Bierkeller was full a couple of days earlier but it turned out to be more than decent.

I was expressing my views of Harbeth to the others present, as above, just as Alan Shaw walked in through the door...

http://restaurantfunkstadl.cafelists.com/

https://www.augustinerkeller.de/en
 
Steven Toy said:
This looks like a choice between time alignment and tonal neutrality; between reproducing music as a series of events running in both parallel and in sequence - and a pretty aural picture.

I love playing the music game of let's trip up the Harbeths with something a bit complicated.

In May 2017 I was in Funkstadl restaurant, Munich drinking with a few other Lakewest MDAC2 hopefuls and Mr Westlake himself after visiting the Munich show. This is hardly a place on the beaten track, more one chosen in desperation when Augustiner Bierkeller was full a couple of days earlier but it turned out to be more than decent.

I was expressing my views of Harbeth to the others present, as above, just as Alan Shaw walked in through the door...

http://restaurantfunkstadl.cafelists.com/

https://www.augustinerkeller.de/en
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Are the any Tannoy speakers time-aligned?

The Churchill measured by Stereophile definitely is not…
 
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