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Ukraine IV

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European Ukraine vs anti-Russian Ukraine

The visits of the leaders of continental Europe and the visit of the British Prime Minister the next day demonstrate the competition of two geopolitical projects: European and anti-Russian.

Europe needs to end the war urgently. They are ready to give Ukraine any virtual gifts so that the war stops and they can start a "dialogue with Moscow."

We have already written that...

Is that a Royal "we"?

BloJo's visit was, for him, to serve one purpose only. To make him find a receptive audience and pretend to be Churchill Mk2. The UK knows that full well. We support the UK policy in general terms, but know our 'leader' is a clown.

But despite that the UK also knows that *Russia invaded Ukraine, and regardless of any deflections, excuses, window dressing, etc, and it is important for us all that that invasion should be seen to fail.* Or at *absolute minimium* prove so costly and difficult for Putin that he knows it was a mistake to big to hide from his population, and would be an even bigger one to try for more. Particularly with China watching with a 'friendly' smile...

Thus, despite all the diversions, deflections, etc. The basic point remains. Russia invaded Ukraine, and it is important to many other countries that that invasion should fail to deliver what Putin wants.
 
The Kaliningrad issue is kicking off big. The Kremlin now threatening tiny Lithuania with dire consequences for its population if it doesn’t let Russia use its country as a land corridor for anything it wants to ship to its colony.
 
Erm that use of "Europe" skates over the fact that the level of defence spending in Europe varies from country to country. So risks being Trump-esque. It also overlooks the problem that all too often the money is spent on the wrong things in the wrong way.
Dear Jim,

Nothing Trump-like about me in reality. I even advised a friend who happens to be Tory that Johnson would prove a disaster, before he was elected as Party leader!

But I take your point. Some European countries certainly were not playing their part in NATO with respect to levels of defence spending. Criticism of this is justified. What Trump tried to do to NATO certainly is not acceptable behaviour from a long standing ally in my book.

Thanks for the response.

Best wishes from George
 
Four months after the invasion the British government has finally agreed to allow unaccompanied child refugees into the UK. Four months!

Best of luck to these children and their sponsor families.

[Valya] left her family home in Khershon in southern Ukraine, where there has been heavy fighting, in the hope she could travel to the UK and live with a sponsor family in the Midlands. Like hundreds of other Ukrainian teenagers, she had applied under the Homes for Ukraine scheme, which for weeks made no mention of restrictions on under-18s travelling alone. But she was told her visa had been blocked when the Home Office changed its guidance to say that under-18s must be travelling with a parent or guardian, or reuniting with them in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61887136
 
I'm quite ashamed at how slow our government has been in organising refugee sanctuary.

That and the slow pace of rearming Ukraine.

If this goes badly we will have a long time to regret the lack of prompt response.
 
The slow pace of the UK in contributing to the re-arming of Ukraine may well have a lot more to do with Johnson making promises he can't keep, than any unwillingness to provide said arms. There will also be logistical and tactical issues with regard to avoiding shipments being destroyed by the Russian military once they are there.

Refugee sanctuary, on the other hand, has been deliberately hampered since the beginning by the Tory Scum.

John
 
Hi all - just to let you know that I've opened another fundraiser for Ukraine in the Charity section. I'll be travelling to eastern Ukraine in early July and I would like to bring something much needed by the civilian volunteers in my home city: a pickup truck.

I'm told that it is realistic to source one in reasonable condition on the UK used car market for £3,000, so this is my goal. Ambitious but realistic, I hope.

If we raise this amount, I'll drive the vehicle from the UK to Zaporizhzhia myself, where I will hand it to Galina Goncharenko - the local volunteer we have helped in the past.

facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004906455779

Russian troops are currently 35-40 km away from Zaporizhzhia.

I'm very sorry to pester you for money again, but this is important. Quite literally, it is a matter of life and death.

Anyway, here's the link to my fundraising page:

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/zaporizhzhia

Hope it's ok to post this in this thread as well, but if not I apologise in advance.

Many thanks for your kindness and generosity.

Vitaliy
 
Does this basic point apply to all invasions, or just this one?

I assume there may be exceptions. e.g. we 'invaded' France on D-Day. I admit it was important to Nazi Germany that invasion should then fail. But I guess I'm biassed a tad on disagreeing with them on that. :)
...and of course WW2 had started some time before that, *not* by the UK. Arguably because we failed to stand up much earlier.

As per earlier postings, the distinction is that all the excuses Putin and his puppets trot out don't justify their invasion. Nor its effect on countries around the globe. Hikes in food and fuel prices hit poorer countries more than wealthy ones, for example.
 
I assume there may be exceptions. e.g. we 'invaded' France on D-Day. I admit it was important to Nazi Germany that invasion should then fail. But I guess I'm biassed a tad on disagreeing with them on that. :)
...and of course WW2 had started some time before that, *not* by the UK. Arguably because we failed to stand up much earlier.

As per earlier postings, the distinction is that all the excuses Putin and his puppets trot out don't justify their invasion. Nor its effect on countries around the globe. Hikes in food and fuel prices hit poorer countries more than wealthy ones, for example.
Not disagreeing with any of that. But if there is a moral case against invading another country, as there most certainly is in the case of Putin, it has to be applied universally, not just in specific cases.
 
Not disagreeing with any of that. But if there is a moral case against invading another country, as there most certainly is in the case of Putin, it has to be applied universally, not just in specific cases.
Quite. Argentina's invasion of the Falklands was very wrong.
 
Quite. Argentina's invasion of the Falklands was very wrong.
I take your point, moral absolutism of course has as many problems as moral relativity, but what is it about the invasion of the Falklands that makes it more pernicious than say the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan?
 
I take your point, moral absolutism of course has as many problems as moral relativity, but what is it about the invasion of the Falklands that makes it more pernicious than say the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan?
"Well, it's ours, innit?"
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not trying to support anybody's invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan, nor Iraq's earlier invasion of Iran, etc. etc.
 
I take your point, moral absolutism of course has as many problems as moral relativity, but what is it about the invasion of the Falklands that makes it more pernicious than say the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan?

Not sure who you think you are lecturing to this morning. The vast majority of PF members were critical of the UKs involvement in the second Gulf War and as such can’t be accused of hypocrisy when speaking out against the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
 
The righteous never miss an opportunity, no matter how inappropriate.
Strange that you see a question as a lecture, they are two very different things. Why are questions ‘inappropriate’ to this thread? Is it a thread where questions are not allowed ?
 
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