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Power cable recommendations....

That's a bit of a leap to say we haven't tested any. We have and not found a difference, just we weren't expecting* to find a difference knowing about all the stuff between the wall socket and the generator, plus that mains wire inside the amp/cd/radio/whatever (tbh there's a marketing opportunity there for the wire between the device's inlet socket and the transformer.).

* Expectation is a strong force in us humans, don't underestimate it's persuasive, subconscious influence - now there's at least some verified and repeatable experimental evidence to support that. Can't see much peer reviewed experimental evidence of the effects of mains cables. :)
You will, I'm sure, acknowledge that this phenomenon, so far as it is 'in-play' will work both ways. So if you 'expect' not to hear a difference, you will not hear a difference. Or does expectation bias only inflict the gullible which, of course, you are not?
 
You will, I'm sure, acknowledge that this phenomenon, so far as it is 'in-play' will work both ways. So if you 'expect' not to hear a difference, you will not hear a difference. Or does expectation bias only inflict the gullible which, of course, you are not?
Oh yes certainly it influences in both directions. I wasn't expecting a change and I didn't hear one. My mate was expecting a change and he did hear a change, but the nature of the change he couldn't reliably attribute to a specific cable, that is he thought the specific change he heard was cable A's quality when cable B was in the loop, like wise when cable C was in the loop he thought it was cable A; just couldn't correlate.

He hears the change, hence he is still a believer.

You could conclude that we are both gullible to our expectations, only mine is tempered by knowing that a small length of cable, compared to all the vagaries of cables, connections, etc between the generator and the wall socket, is the smallest influencer, to the point of having no impact.

Having said that non of us have the same ears or hearing quality, so the playing field is uneven from the start. Which is why measurements are so important, they take those variables out if the loop and I have yet to see some peer reviewed evidence that a mains cable had a direct influence on audio in a situation where the impact of the supply chain is considered.
 
Seems a waste of a conversation to me...i would of asked about aliens and if God made them too? what about dinosaurs? Who made them? And of course the important question! When is Jesus coming back to judge us? But you couldnt manage that could you joe? Jesus wept!! Hang on..
Did he? Perhaps you could you ask? I happen to think the aliens question is the more interesting one..anyway im off to polish my fuses...lol
I asked him all that stuff as well, but His answers are confidential.

Now when I talk to God, I know He understands
He says "Stick by me and I'll be your guiding hand
But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to"
 
Oh yes certainly it influences in both directions. I wasn't expecting a change and I didn't hear one. My mate was expecting a change and he did hear a change, but the nature of the change he couldn't reliably attribute to a specific cable, that is he thought the specific change he heard was cable A's quality when cable B was in the loop, like wise when cable C was in the loop he thought it was cable A; just couldn't correlate.

He hears the change, hence he is still a believer.
That's not how to do a blind test, though. If you want to do a valid A/B blind test, you have two items, not three. I'm not surprised he was confused. I don't think you can discredit his experience if your test doesn't conform to accepted standards.
 
I did once do a 'proper' mains cable test using three cables that I had no experience of. We screened off the listening area behind a sheet and 'Pal A' stood there changing or not changing the cables over, noting what he did each time. First, he played the chosen bit of music (short, with clearly defined instrument character...only 30 seconds long so we could hear one very clear piece of Cello playing a short passage) with each cable he described as A,B and C. We made notes on the sound we heard. He then repeated exactly that again, and we refined our notes. At this stage I had noted 2 cables sounded identical, but one was just different. Then the swapping began, and we were asked to write which cable was in operation based on our noted previous listening. He swapped the cables at random 10 times, with each cable appearing at least twice. I thought I heared 'my' different cable 4 times and noted that. Otherwise it all sounded the same. Turns out I had it right with ref to 'my' cable; 4 out of 4 appearances, but the others had heard things differently, and had scored 2 and 1 respectively.

None of us expressed a preference for any cable. We all agreed the changes were very small and needed the most critical listening to distinguish at all. No one proposed any explanation, but bias did not exist.
In perspective, i.e. considering value and amount of change, cables come firmly last in my HiFi world as a way to 'improve' (but 'alter' is the correct word) the sound of a system. Interconnects can exhibit bigger changes and speakers cables can too, but even those are doing much less than any change of electronics, and then anything with moving parts, like record decks and transducers? 100X the difference. I don't have a lot to spend anyway, but even if i did, I'd stick to the basics of very well made, well engineered cables using tried and trusted materials.

One interesting footnote.

In my system, 'my' cable actually made the sound 'worse'. It was a blurring or lack of detail in one long note on the Cello that I heard as the difference, and that I found each time.
 
That's not how to do a blind test, though. I'm not surprised he was confused. I don't think you can discredit his experience if your test doesn't conform to accepted standards.
Certainly not, I don't have the space, but then most people claiming a change haven't conducted their comparisons under accepted test conditions.

My mate didn't know the cable in the loop, he didn't know if I had changed it or not, changing the cable even if it was the same cable, he couldn't see me doing it, and no talking allowed, esp about cables :)

We tried our best.
 
I did once do a 'proper' mains cable test using three cables that I had no experience of. We screened off the listening area behind a sheet and 'Pal A' stood there changing or not changing the cables over, noting what he did each time. First, he played the chosen bit of music (short, with clearly defined instrument character...only 30 seconds long so we could hear one very clear piece of Cello playing a short passage) with each cable he described as A,B and C. We made notes on the sound we heard. He then repeated exactly that again, and we refined our notes. At this stage I had noted 2 cables sounded identical, but one was just different. Then the swapping began, and we were asked to write which cable was in operation based on our noted previous listening. He swapped the cables at random 10 times, with each cable appearing at least twice. I thought I heared 'my' different cable 4 times and noted that. Otherwise it all sounded the same. Turns out I had it right with ref to 'my' cable; 4 out of 4 appearances, but the others had heard things differently, and had scored 2 and 1 respectively.

<snip>

One interesting footnote.

In my system, 'my' cable actually made the sound 'worse'. It was a blurring or lack of detail in one long note on the Cello that I heard as the difference, and that I found each time.
This does, hopefully, indicate to you that whatever the technical bods will argue, it is possible to hear changes to the sound with different mains cables.

Personally, I'm coming round to a view that it's not necessarily the mains power delivery, but the earth which makes most of the difference.
 
This does, hopefully, indicate to you that whatever the technical bods will argue, it is possible to hear changes to the sound with different mains cables.

Personally, I'm coming round to a view that it's not necessarily the mains power delivery, but the earth which makes most of the difference.

Yes, I'd say something in that, along with the system ground.

I stick resolutely with my 'vintage' Kondo (all power, interconnect & speaker) cables primarily because they're still unmatched IME regarding tone and what Kondo-san described as 'stretch.'

However, these were designed at a time when we weren't all sitting in the midst of an electromagnetic soup generated by wi-fi, phone chargers, etc. I am aware when using more modern cables (two different types) designed with a particular emphasis on grounding and shielding that whatever I think of the performance in other respects, the perceived noise floor of my system clearly drops.

Yeah baby, how inky are my blacks now?

Basic experimentation with a third-party grounding solution shows the effect can be increased still further, and appears to be accumulative.

I normally only fanny about with such things with a degree of reluctance (can't really be arsed these days) but there is something in the pipeline I should be able to get my paws on in a couple of months which will likely warrant further exploration.

At the very least, I imagine I'll be able to fire up another cable thread... It's important to have something to look forward to as one gets older.
 
I just had an earth fault on the ring, so that there was only one leg back to the cu. Now fixed - result, much higher noise floor.
 
Never mind a power cable even if you think they all sound the same spend some money on a decent fuse upgrade and notice a substantial upgrade. A decent fuse in a 13a plug makes a considerable improvement because that is the point of electrical entry to your component.


Waste of time making comments because a fuse cost how much...how much...how much!

That's nonsense because you cannot prove it technically and the supply comes mile upon mile to your property.

Obviously this thread is nothing to do with the original question but more to do with piss takes and the ghetto blaster faction.
 
Well thanks for all the responses.

I've noticed that a lot of the "cables make no difference" crowd have never actually compared any cables and pass judgement on what they think is happening.

Somebody else said the same thing earlier in the thread, but I can't actually find any cable naysayers saying that they've never compared cables. Have I missed something, or are you just making an assumption?
 
Why do people persist in the idea that if people hear differences they are being accused of being gullible? Of course you will hear differences if the demonstration is sighted, all it means is you brain is working properly.
 
If I wanted to have a discussion about whether power cables make a difference, I would have titled the thread "Do power cables make a difference, and how to tell?"

The actual title of this thread is "Power cable recommendations", and I ask for peoples experience in what they recommend. It would be appreciated if you could stick to that topic and take the discussion on how/whether they make a difference, the testing methodology, biases in testing, psychology elsewhere. Its not what this thread is about and is off topic

Thank you
 
Its not what this thread is about and is off topic

Thank you

Good try, but this is the internet.

Someone asked you what you thought of the three cables you already mentioned, and you thought the Atlas was best, but not in what way. As I suggested, if you're looking for something radically better than the four you've tried, I doubt any such beast exists.

Will any alternative mentioned thus far provide a Damascene moment? No.

Differences will be incremental.

FWIW, I currently (no pun intended) have three matched sets of power cables here, at three quite widely varied price points, ie. from about 100 quid each to around a grand a pop. I'm also familiar with one of the cables you mention, having had the complete system wired with those for a while a few years back. I suspect that a couple of the others are actually in Santa's reindeer team, but that's another story.

Yes, there are differences, but IME the ones worth bothering with tend to reveal themselves only over long-term listening, not in quick shoot-outs.

And I always approach any such testing with respect to a matched set of cables, ie. one between wall and mains distribution block (if used) and one for each component in the system. I'd consider trying to mix and match and draw any meaningful conclusion about a disparate set of cables, regardless of individual merit or otherwise, assumes a level of farce which would be topped only by Brian Rix falling out of a cupboard with his trousers round his ankles.

My suggestion is pick one and try using a set of those in your system. Leave them be for a couple of weeks, then swap back to whatever you were using before, and see if you miss the ones you've just removed.

There you go, relevant on-topic opinion/advice. And you can bet there will still be those who find plenty to quibble about even with that.
 
If I wanted to have a discussion about whether power cables make a difference, I would have titled the thread "Do power cables make a difference, and how to tell?"

The actual title of this thread is "Power cable recommendations", and I ask for peoples experience in what they recommend. It would be appreciated if you could stick to that topic and take the discussion on how/whether they make a difference, the testing methodology, biases in testing, psychology elsewhere. Its not what this thread is about and is off topic

Thank you
I would recommend a U.K. certified mains lead, which are amazingly inexpensive.
Keith
 
If I wanted to have a discussion about whether power cables make a difference, I would have titled the thread "Do power cables make a difference, and how to tell?"

The actual title of this thread is "Power cable recommendations", and I ask for peoples experience in what they recommend. It would be appreciated if you could stick to that topic and take the discussion on how/whether they make a difference, the testing methodology, biases in testing, psychology elsewhere. Its not what this thread is about and is off topic

Thank you
oooooooo get you. Luckily you (probably) also have the ability to find what you need from within the answers above and if no, then maybe that is also telling you something, but, so as not to be an arse=total, I recently decided to go one make for all cables bar speaker and chose Mark Grant.
Best made cables I've ever had here, good looking and at a variety of costs.
 
You will, I'm sure, acknowledge that this phenomenon, so far as it is 'in-play' will work both ways. So if you 'expect' not to hear a difference, you will not hear a difference. Or does expectation bias only inflict the gullible which, of course, you are not?

I wish I’d kept a note of the two other times I’ve posted this, but ‘expectation’ bias is a poorly chosen name given to a phenomenon that is not affected at all by your conscious expectation, whatever it may be, if your subconscious pre-conditioning has tweaked your subconscious to think there may be a difference.

I’m keeping out of cable discussions, but this is a common technical error that I (and a bunch of statisticians) spent a good portion of my working life trying to prevent ruining my expensive experiments.
 


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