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Help choosing between 3 MC phono cartridges

L

LazyHammer

pfm Member
Hi everyone! So, I'm a bit at a loss here...

I just acquired a minty Denon DP-59L and it comes preinstalled with a 30€ Ortofon OM5e which we all know is not good. Therefore, I need a new one, and it's going to be my first time trying a MC cartridge! I plan to buy this no later than this week.

The phono stage used will be an iFi Phono Zen which has gotten really good reviews and is capable of handling MC cartridges with no problem. The rest of the system will be headphones, but mainly my 1989 AKG K1000 powered by my Pioneer Exclusive M4A.

These are my three choices:

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With a budget of an absolute maximum (really I mean it!) 600 euro, that's all I can afford. These 3 seem to be the best candidates.

However this is complicated since, for example, the ML stylus is more refined than the more expensive Shibata, however some people prefer one or the other. Technically a more fine stylus is better since it reveals more of what's in the groove, but... you know how it goes.
And then the AT33 PTG/II is a middle ground choice that I'm very unsure of how it even compares to the OC9X.


Things to keep in consideration:

-I am aiming for the most accurate reproduction I can possibly achieve, not trying to get that "sweet" flavor of vinyl or anything. Just, accurate. It's going to be used for digitizing, therefore, it should be as close as possible to the digital version of the albums provided they have the exact same mastering.

-I will only listen to pure analog records from the 70's and 80's, mainly rare releases, tons of japanese stuff. Many of those rare albums sound horrible on digital (because of crappy remasterings) so the vinyl is the way to go. I love dynamic range and I hate when my music gets brickwalled.

-I *hate* surface noise, clicks and pops. Like I said I'm aiming for the most accurate reproduction I can achieve as if it was digital, since I will be digitizing most of my records. I have a very thorough wet cleaning method to achieve this and I've had great success with my now defunct Ortofon OM30. However I've read that the ML stylus or the Shibata stylus could increase the perceived amount of clicks and pops so I'm worried about this too. This is very important.

This is all. Hopefully we'll get to a conclusion. I appreciate it guys :) Cheers
 
Why does it have to be moving coil? Lots of people run good MM carts because they prefer the sound, not because they are cheaper.

I'd take the ML over a Shibata any day. More forgiving but still clean and derailed.
 
In my (limited) experience surface noise is a function of bad azimuth. The Ortofon 2M Black has a reputation of being noisy in the groove due to the Shibata profile stylus but once set up I found it to be the quietest of all cartridges I’ve tried, eerily black background. The AT-OC9 XSL a very close 2nd. The 2M Black is completely matter of fact and true to the recording, even more so than the AT, I’d recommend it for what you want. It’s too true for me, I like something more coloured!
 
I suspect nobody here has heard all three.

I do believe there may be some PTG/II vs OC9XML comparisons over on SHF. I don't recall there being any substantive differences, perhaps a marginal preference for the OC9 variant, noted for its speed and generally honest reproduction.

To my mind, AT carts generally have a house sound - erring toward leanness is how I quantify it. Of course, this is just a generalised conception of their carts. I would think Ortofons more generally close to neutral, others will disagree.

There's likely not a bad cart amongst the three. If you are familiar with AT carts and find them favourable, you could simply buy on price/ looks etc.
 
it's certainly more important than any chosen cartridge from 3 above is properly and precisely aligned and mounted into the arm that perfectly suit it.

agree on above poster re ortofon neutrality but it only counts for one part of their line. SPUs don't belong there, they are beautifully colored on the side of music.
 
The PTG II is much higher compliance than the other two which differ only in their stylus profile. Presumably your arm is better suited to one or the other. Your TT seems to come with two slightly different arms fitted as standard, one straight and one S-Shaped. They both look pretty high mass (possibly 1980's Brit fi influenced) which might steer one more towards the OC9 series. The PTG II works well with slightly lower effective mass arms (ie not British designs such as Linn, Rega, Zeta, Syrinx, AO or origin live)
 
I would get a Benz Micro Ace. The Benzes are very quiet in the groove. I have had two - Wood SL and currently playing Ref S, both out of your cost limit but the Ace is well ....... Ace!

Love Ortofons and they are quiet but not as quiet as Benz.

If you are set on AT I would take the ML based on my experience with the shibata in my Ortofon Jubilee.
 
The top Ortofons really have become massively overpriced in recent years. My PTGII on an Orbe/Graham combo easily sees off my Kontapunkt b on an Elite rock/lingo II/Rega combo (the Kontra b didn't suit the graham arm at all). I wouldn't be looking to Ortofon these days for any VFM.

Never tried a Benz so no idea what they're like, but anybody with stock suggests it's £750 for the Micro ace which is overbudget by quite a way.
 
Very cool table! I would vote for a good MM cart to give best sound, MM's have as a generalization more sold presentation (but less fine detail, but still plenty enough for the quality of arm). The 540ML would be my recommendation.
 
Thanks for the suggestion guys.

The Ortofon OM30 is what I already had (unfortunately it broke) so thats why now I want to try something else! And do the jump to MC...

I think I will go for the OC9XML. For MR Pig, I thought stylus shapes like ML were even less forgiving than Shibata since they are even thinner and dig deeper? So setting them up has to be even more difficult... That's what I read at least.
 
LazyHammer said:
I thought stylus shapes like ML were even less forgiving than Shibata since they are even thinner and dig deeper?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't describe either profile as particularly forgiving but Shibata is worse. I don't know the technicalities of it but it's a very hard profile to align properly and if it's out even a little bit it sounds nasty. It's the only tip I've used were I could hear it come on and off alignment as it crossed the record.

ML gives away a little detail maybe but it's easier to align and lasts really well. The Special Line Contact (SLC) profile on the XSL is amazing. I've never heard another tip that is both highly detailed and very tolerant of poor vinyl. I'd be really tempted to try the MM cart with this profile before the OC9 ML.
 
Mr Pig said:
The Special Line Contact (SLC) profile on the XSL is amazing. I've never heard another tip that is both highly detailed and very tolerant of poor vinyl. I'd be really tempted to try the MM cart with this profile before the OC9 ML.
Click to expand...

Well, I can't afford the OC9XSL, but the ML is 512€ while the VM760SLC is 606€. Should I pay 100€ more to get the MM cartridge with the SLC tip? Honestly it's very difficult to decide without being able to try both one next to the other...
 
I haven’t used an OC9, but I am on my second at33 ptg and dallied with two similarly priced ortofon Shibata carts, the 2m black MM and the Quintet black MC, before settling on my second 33ptg.

I was less than impressed with Shibata styli. They are fiendishly difficult to align to perfection and vinyl that is less than perfect sounds far worse than with an ML stylus. There’s a detailed thread with contributions from people far better informed than I explaining why this is.

The AT33PTG is a superb cartridge compared to any I have had previously and I have no intention of buying anything else for that sort of money. I have used them in a Rega RB250 and now in a Roksan Nima with wonderful results.

That said, I am minded to try the OC9 XSL next time I need a new cart and would try and stretch to this were I in your shoes and had my MC stage (one of Arkless’s dedicated transimpedance mc stages).
 
LazyHammer said:
Well, I can't afford the OC9XSL, but the ML is 512€ while the VM760SLC is 606€. Should I pay 100€ more to get the MM cartridge with the SLC tip? Honestly it's very difficult to decide without being able to try both one next to the other...
Click to expand...
That probably depends on your phono stage. I’d always go MC, personally and have invested in a dedicated mc stage. Expensive MMs have always struck me as ‘just because you can doesn’t mean you should’ - like Shibata styli.

For years before I joined this place I used an at F3 MC, which was pretty much the cheapest mc one could buy, with the internal mc stage on a number of very good integrated amps. Streets ahead of any comparable MM.
 
I'd also query if your money might be better spent on a MM, given your phono preamp. I think the 540ML is a great cart and may provide you with what you're after - as in the sum total of the 540/Zen is probably better than 33PTG/Zen. These budget stages are optimised for MM, given their likely usage.

Though I accept this will probably seem an underwhelming outcome given the forum mystique around mc superiority!
 
barryb said:
I'd also query if your money might be better spent on a MM, given your phono preamp. I think the 540ML is a great cart and may provide you with what you're after - as in the sum total of the 540/Zen is probably better than 33PTG/Zen. These budget stages are optimised for MM, given their likely usage.

Though I accept this will probably seem an underwhelming outcome given the forum mystique around mc superiority!
Click to expand...

Agree, if you go down the MC route you will likely be needing to upgrade your phono stage in short order.
 
daytona600 said:
iFi Phono Zen is a good phono stage but only £139. £500 MC cart is a bit over the top...
Click to expand...

Yes. I would spend all the money and more on a phono stage, before spending big on a cartridge. In fact, come to think of it, I would spend all the money and more on an arm before a phono stage. It's my belief that you are not targetting your funds at the real bottleneck in your system and you may well end up regretting spending much time digitising from a source which is easily improved.
 
sonddek said:
Yes. I would spend all the money and more on a phono stage, before spending big on a cartridge. In fact, come to think of it, I would spend all the money and more on an arm before a phono stage. It's my belief that you are not targetting your funds at the real bottleneck in your system and you may well end up regretting spending much time digitising from a source which is easily improved.
Click to expand...

The thing is the real key of the DP-59L is the dynamic servo tracer arm, it's the main selling point aside from the amazing specs of the motor... So I'm not gonna be changing that, possibly ever!
 
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