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LP12 sweet spot under a grand

John said:
Back when I was selling and setting up Linn LP12’s in the mid 1980’s we did not use torque screwdrivers but knew through training at Audiophile Systems how tight the fittings were to be by feel. It’s obvious not as precise as using a torque screwdriver but there never a point where one felt you were over tightening or causing damage.
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That's kinda my point, thru training you got the feel for how to properly torque the fittings, but for the guy that's not necessarily very mechanically inclined, trying his hand for the first time tinkering with a LP12, just telling him "tighten a fastener, we do mean tight - probably tighter than you would have imagined" could -as one can imaging- lead to confusion and error. Over my 20 years on and off at the shop I used to work at we have seen quite a few "mistakes", some even by other dealers.
 
Mr Pig said:
I don't think it's odd. Linn have resolutely refused to build budget tonearms, or even tonearms at vaguely reasonable prices. So sheeps wanting a good arm which says Linn on it, but which doesn't cost more than their entire deck, don't have a lot of options. And you can comfort yourself in the faded glory of owning Linn's once best tonearm.

I've not heard the combo myself but I suspect the Ittok will match a more modern sounding incarnation of the LP12 quite well. The tighter deck bringing some needed control and cleanliness to proceedings. I'm sure it's still a viable option.
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Huh? The Basik was explicitly a budget/starter arm. There's one on an LP12 in the Classifieds here right now. The Akito was sort-of a budget arm as well (at least relative to a new LP12 price).
 
Tim Jones said:
Huh? The Basik was explicitly a budget/starter arm.
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We're talking about today, not forty years ago and, if you want to be pedantic, Linn didn't make the Basik. They bought them from Japan. The cheapest arm they make is the Akito which is two grand. If you consider that 'budget' fair enough.
 
Bob B. said:
Back around 1976 I had LP12, mission 774 and asak. I then bought another LP12 with grace, supex 900. There was no contest. The music just flowed from that combination
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I bought my first LP12 in the late 70s and specified the Mission 774 arm and used my Entre cartridge from my previous TD150/Hadcock GH228. I was unimpressed with the 774 arm and ended up trading it in for a used Grace G707/Supex SD900 combination which sounded fantastic!

Of course G707s and SD900s tend to cost a fortune today, wish I'd stopped the "upgrade" urge back then!

I visited Scott Strachan in Edinburgh to audition his Syrinx PU2 and was most impressed but my dealer, Tony Gascoigne at Lintone Audio, discouraged me from ordering one (he knew they were a pain in the arse to fit and set up and he also knew the Ittock was coming with a pre-fitted Linn armboard for simple set up).

Much cash spent going sideways since!!
 
Thanks all for the advice. It’s interesting that a couple of people have found the 774 not to have worked that well.

I think I’ll go for something very early and basic, maybe a Valhalla tops. I’ll put a wanted ad in Classifieds at some stage.
 
I've been using a valhalla lp12 with syrinx pu3/oc9 as a stop -gap recently and it's very enjoyable. Survived the shipping and haven't even changed the belt yet.
 
Mr Pig said:
I've not heard the combo myself but I suspect the Ittok will match a more modern sounding incarnation of the LP12 quite well. The tighter deck bringing some needed control and cleanliness to proceedings. I'm sure it's still a viable option.
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Absolutely! As for the the Ittok lacking "soul", I couldn't disagree more. Aside for a very slight upper midrange prominence, it was the best (only) arm by a long shot in its day and continues its basic engineering in the form of the Ekos SE today. As for the ARO, well, it's a good arm and different from the Ittok/Ekos but better is just personal preference.
 
sktn77a said:
Absolutely! As for the the Ittok lacking "soul", I couldn't disagree more. Aside for a very slight upper midrange prominence, it was the best (only) arm by a long shot in its day and continues its basic engineering in the form of the Ekos SE today. As for the ARO, well, it's a good arm and different from the Ittok/Ekos but better is just personal preference.
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Quite right, personal preference. My preference would still be a well-fettled Syrinx though.

Admittedly the Ittok was the best-built arm in its day from a UK manufacturer. But guess what, there were a lot of other contemporary Japanese arms which could happily hold their own, although admittedly some of these were not suitable for an LP12, typically too heavy.

Mind you, IIRC DGP of this parish had an FR64fx mounted on a Linn at one point. I always thought that must have been like one of those low-rider Mexican Chevys, not a lot of clearance over speed bumps.
 
sktn77a said:
Aside for a very slight upper midrange prominence, it was the best (only) arm by a long shot in its day...
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A few other manufacturers might disagree with you, they just didn't have as good a propaganda machine. Also, its day was forty years ago.

notevenclose said:
Admittedly the Ittok was the best-built arm in its day from a UK manufacturer.
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No it wasn't. It was from a Japanese manufacturer which is why it was so well built.
 
Mr Pig said:
No it wasn't. It was from a Japanese manufacturer which is why it was so well built.
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Yes, I know, but you know what I meant. That's why I said 'other Japanese arms...'

But everything else from a UK brand other than SME screamed kitchen table/potting shed in terms of build quality at least.
 
Mr Pig said:
Sure, but the Ittok was not UK built so can't be the best UK built tonearm.
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And a warm welcome back to Mr Pig from Pedantry in the North of England (with apologies to Rob Brydon).

UK brand. Last time I looked, Glasgow was still in the UK. (May require editing at some unspecified point in the future). And Linn is still a UK brand regardless of where their baubles are made.
 
notevenclose said:
UK brand...
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Not what you said.

..the Ittok was the best-built arm in its day from a UK manufacturer
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Which strongly implies it was built by the UK manufacturer in question, don't you think? Maybe pedantic but I think it's important to give credit to the right people. At the very time when the UK Hi-Fi industry and press were doing their best to present British Hi-Fi as superior to far Eastern imports, fairy successfully it has to be said, Linn were getting arms made in Japan because they could not build them themselves. Even today the Japanese sell turntables which I doubt any UK manufacturer could build. Certainly not at the same prices.

It is a beautiful and well built arm. Agree.
 
Mr Pig said:
Sure, but the Ittok was not UK built so can't be the best UK built tonearm.
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The Mission 774 was built in Britain and could be said to belong to the ‘kitchen table/potting shed’ type, at
initial viewing.
To my eyes, with an engineering background, it was far from that.

Its aesthetics, compared with an Ittok, left something to be desired.
Its performance, though, left nothing.
 
I've never owned a Linn, although I do own an Ariston RD110SL, it's near cousin with a Linn LV-X basic arm. Just had a look at secondhand LP12 prices and my goodness how they have soared! When I last looked a mid 80's Valhalla deck was £350 and an Ittock about the same. Now those prices have doubled.

I have heard many LP12's and for me the Ittock/LP12 is the classic combo. The Ittock looks absolutely fantastic on that deck, better I think than an EKOS and certainly better than any other option although I can't comment on the sound other than to say that LP12/Ittock combo impressed me many times when I heard it back in the day. It was the stuff of dreams to me back then as an avid reader of Hi-Fi Review in my late teens with just a student bar job to fund my music obsession!

In the event I went the Gyro route but I'd quite like a Linn as a second deck, just can't spare the cash. A friend who has owned his LP12/Akito for 20+ years recently went the other way and added a GyroDec to his stable.

What saddens me is that new Linn prices seem to have soared far above any notional inflation rate in recent years - £2k for an Akito which launched at £149.99 and was the replacement for the Linn Basik LV-X which sold for £129.99 back in the day, or the Ekos at nearly 5 grand - it was around £850 at launch. There's a whole generation of emerging vinyl lovers for whom this turntable has become an even more distant dream than it was back in my day. Certainly new Michell turntable and arm prices seem a whole lot more reasonable than Linn nowadays as you can still just about put a Gyrodec/Rega RB330 combo together for £2k and you'll have the latest springs, upgraded bearing etc for that rather than having a load of further expensive upgrades to climb to get to the top spec Linn suspension/sub-chassis. £10k buys you a GyroDec equipped with the best arm (SME IV or V) and their most refined power supply whereas you're looking at closer to £20k for the top spec Linn.

Hi-fi has always been potentially an expensive hobby but for it to survive it's going to need to attract people like my daughter (aged 17) in and I'm not sure jacking prices so that only oligarchs can afford the stuff is the way to go in the longer term. Fortunately companies like Michell, Rega, Cambridge Audio, Project, Arcam, Mission and Quad still believe in selling high performance audio that is good value.

Birdseed
 
Does the hi-fi hobby need to survive? Esp with what the WEF have planned for humanity? Many world Governments appear to be signing up for their aspirations.....


https://www.weforum.org

Read between the lines!
 
Birdseed007 said:
I've never owned a Linn, although I do own an Ariston RD110SL, it's near cousin with a Linn LV-X basic arm. Just had a look at secondhand LP12 prices and my goodness how they have soared! When I last looked a mid 80's Valhalla deck was £350 and an Ittock about the same. Now those prices have doubled.

I have heard many LP12's and for me the Ittock/LP12 is the classic combo. The Ittock looks absolutely fantastic on that deck, better I think than an EKOS and certainly better than any other option although I can't comment on the sound other than to say that LP12/Ittock combo impressed me many times when I heard it back in the day. It was the stuff of dreams to me back then as an avid reader of Hi-Fi Review in my late teens with just a student bar job to fund my music obsession!

In the event I went the Gyro route but I'd quite like a Linn as a second deck, just can't spare the cash. A friend who has owned his LP12/Akito for 20+ years recently went the other way and added a GyroDec to his stable.

What saddens me is that new Linn prices seem to have soared far above any notional inflation rate in recent years - £2k for an Akito which launched at £149.99 and was the replacement for the Linn Basik LV-X which sold for £129.99 back in the day, or the Ekos at nearly 5 grand - it was around £850 at launch. There's a whole generation of emerging vinyl lovers for whom this turntable has become an even more distant dream than it was back in my day. Certainly new Michell turntable and arm prices seem a whole lot more reasonable than Linn nowadays as you can still just about put a Gyrodec/Rega RB330 combo together for £2k and you'll have the latest springs, upgraded bearing etc for that rather than having a load of further expensive upgrades to climb to get to the top spec Linn suspension/sub-chassis. £10k buys you a GyroDec equipped with the best arm (SME IV or V) and their most refined power supply whereas you're looking at closer to £20k for the top spec Linn.

Hi-fi has always been potentially an expensive hobby but for it to survive it's going to need to attract people like my daughter (aged 17) in and I'm not sure jacking prices so that only oligarchs can afford the stuff is the way to go in the longer term. Fortunately companies like Michell, Rega, Cambridge Audio, Project, Arcam, Mission and Quad still believe in selling high performance audio that is good value.

Birdseed
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You can't really compare prices even adjusted for inflation because the hi-fi environment has changed so much from mass market to pretty much veblen goods aimed at such small numbers, it is very much a niche interest these days regardless of what the vinyl sales suggest.

Regardless of that if there are some young audiophiles around who fancy an LP12, a modest old spec used one isn't a massively expensive thing to buy and enjoy, it will still give you the LP12 sound without having to worry about all the latest ridiculous Linn add-ons inflating the price to that of a new car.
 
Just to bring this back to topic, there seem to be lots to choose from on the bay at the moment - including a Valhalla/no arm for £699 (which looks like quite a sweet spot in terms of just getting hold of one to see if you like it). Doesn't specify Cirkus or non- however.

If I was Sean, I don't know if I'd bother with a Lingo tbh. Yes, the 45 adapter is a pain, but it depends on how frequently you play 45s, and there is usually a considerable price heave for a Lingo deck. I certainly wouldn't bother with a Trampolin. Cirkus or non- is a slightly arcane debate, but in general I'd go with. Even more arcanely was the mild terror that Mk1 Lingo SMPSs put noise back into the mains, etc.

Whatever the case, you'd probably want to get it checked over by a dealer, would prob need a new armboard (not sure what fitting the 774 is), maybe have the Valhalla board serviced.
 
You know, it's not really a question of what is the best LP12 you can get for a grand. These days any LP12 for a grand is not bad going!
 
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