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Ukraine IV

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anubisgrau said:
As you called me at Munich thread and we mentioned our mutual friend, I'm quite amazed that Romy nailed it. I wouldn't have expected that, being a Russian Jewish immigrant in the States, he hates Russia at least as much as our US Dimitry here. So, Romy:

"Do not believe news.

I do not feel that it is Putin war at all and I feel very unfortunately that it is how is being sold in West. It is just a plan vanilla US war against Russia via Ukrainian proxy. Unfortunately Ukraine does not exist since 2014 as a country but exist exclusively as United States military forpost, and USA will fight Russians up to the last Ukrainian. Ukrainians were very unfortunate that they have the government they haven't since 2014. Whatever they do is not an interest of Ukrainian people but it is just a collection of few dozen ethically very questionable oligarhs being played by USA State department. I wish Russians have more creativity and brain how to liberate Ukrainians from current Ukrainian regime without engaging into wide war across the whole nation. Fortunately a truth about in nature of Ukrainian racist regime is beginning to drip to the West and expose in their full colors. Unfortunately it does not comply with the general narrative that West is willing to publicize. Nowadays news from Al Jazeera, India or China are significantly more balanced. I hardly recommend do not listen any Ukrainian or Russian news, or Western news, that happens to have well understood agenda."

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=26739#26739
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Of course Ukraine exists as a country. To say otherwise is just regurgitating Russian propaganda.
 
No, Romy is an audiophile so practically our colleague. And given he emigrated from Russia I assume he knows a bit.

I am totally surprised with his standpoint. I was expecting to see something like the US Dimitry views, given a similar national background.

Btw, what's wrong being against Putin and Zelensky? This is the only rational position IMHO. He crippled his country to become adopted by the US/UK. I certainly wouldn't be happy to pay living costs for Ukraine for undefinite time but I understand if you consider it human and agree to do it for the rest of your life.
 
Barrymagrec said:
Just heard the minister for refugees telling outright lies about Ukraine visa issues on R4.
Another utter bastard. Must get on very well with his boss.
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The UK home office has become an appalling institution under the Tories. It's difficult and very expensive for me (UK citizen, UK citizen parents, grew up in UK for 25+ years) to get a visa for my wife of 20+ years - I can't imagine how hard (and expensive) it must be to get visas for extended family or for the poor souls arriving to claim asylum.

It was far simpler, and less onerous and expensive for me to apply for US permanent residency and then citizenship via my wife than it was to obtain a visa for her to live in the UK for a year back in 2015. It doesn't just need a change in government - it needs a change in government and a mass clear out of the current home office management if it's ever to become a humane operation.
 
Putin's reaction to the Russian diplomat who spoke truth to power ? "He is not with us he is against us."
Now who brought that stupid line to prominence ? Our old idiot George W Bush of course. Who also launched the illegal war on Iraq.
Isn't Putin just following that lead ?
 
wacko said:
Putin's reaction to the Russian diplomat who spoke truth to power ? "He is not with us he is against us."
Now who brought that stupid line to prominence ? Our old idiot George W Bush of course. Who also launched the illegal war on Iraq.
Isn't Putin just following that lead ?
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Bush wasn't bright enough to come up with anything on his own. He was just paraphrasing from the bible:

"Whoever is not with Me is against Me, and whoever does not gather with Me scatters" (Matthew 12:30)

"Whoever is not against us is for us" (Luke 9:50; Mark 9:40).

Hope you are not saying that if Bush had never invaded Iraq, then Putin would never have invaded Ukraine. Recall that Putin invaded Chechnya well before 9/11.
 
wacko said:
Putin's reaction to the Russian diplomat who spoke truth to power ? "He is not with us he is against us."
Now who brought that stupid line to prominence ? Our old idiot George W Bush of course. Who also launched the illegal war on Iraq.
Isn't Putin just following that lead ?
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I assume you have reached the age that you realise that when other people do bad things it does not justify others to do similar bad things?
 
lagavullin10y said:
I assume you have reached the age that you realise that when other people do bad things it does not justify others to do similar bad things?
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Unnecessary to be rude. Did I say either were justified ?
This is politics not playground morality. Putin will use the precedents.
 
wacko said:
Unnecessary to be rude. Did I say either were justified ?
This is politics not playground morality. Putin will use the precedents.
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Yes I'm afraid you implicitly did, by suggesting it. It's again a post which tries to dilute the responsibility of the sole aggressor in this invasion of Ukraine: Vladimir Putin.
 
wacko said:
Isn't Putin just following that lead ?
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Naah, he is following Stalin's lead in the Winter War and annexation of the Baltics, down to the argument that it was a pre-emptive necessity against future German aggression.
 
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anubisgrau said:
Well, he thinks it's not only "America", but also UK:

"Those people are pure hostages of a bigger games that US and UK play with half of the world. Putin is not more guilty in the situation then Zelensky, and the last one is kind of irrelevant to the story at all. The only fault of Putin (not the characters that I defend typically) that he runs in shitty country that is so weak that was not able to behave as great nations do: with wisdom, dignity and might. People in West do not understand that there is Ukraine and there is the current Ukrainian government that nothing to do with Ukraine or with ideas of healthy nationalism. The Ukrainian regime from 2013 is very ugly aberration of Nazism and Russian do a great service to humanity trying to eradiate it. Do I feel that this very noble goal justified by destroying the whole country, Nope, I feel that it should not be done.

Here is an interesting question I ask myself. Could regular Ukrainians be responsible for that idiotic regime that screw them up for 8 years? I do not think so. Today millions of Russians got ruined as group responsibility for what Russian regime does not in Ukraine. If it fair, then why the same logic could not applyed to Ukrainians? The Russians faked us everything in 2013-14 when they shamefully did not defend Ukraine during the 2011-2004 color governmental overthrows by USA. I do not think that Russians today are the position to be ethical and physical authority to fix anything. They are just too destroyed ideologically and too feeble economically or military. The bigger problems however derived from the history Russians were absolutely impotent to make case of own interest for the world after 1990s and while they were humiliated by West they did not have a leader who would be truly a stateman with an ability to sell Russian interest to the world."
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I thought last time you told us that Putin was protecting gypsies in Ukraine.
 
stevec67 said:
Is he starting with those in Ukraine as a warm-up for dealing with racism against gypsies in Russia?
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What drugs you were on? Shrooms or acid?

It's pathetic how you defend nazi insignia and antitziganism in a cradle of democracy. You could earn a fortune these days with so much $$$ funnelling into Ukr PR.
 
anubisgrau said:
What drugs you were on? Shrooms or acid?

It's pathetic how you defend nazi insignia and antitziganism in a cradle of democracy. You could earn a fortune these days with so much $$$ funnelling into Ukr PR.
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Grow up, child. Putin can start on alleged racism in neighbouring countries when he gets his own house in order. Until then, he and his fascist apologists like you can push off.
 
It ain't a Putin but UK and US human rights organizations - Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch. It helps to check their pre war reporting from Ukraine but why I am not expecting you to do it....
 
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