Freak accident question

[PaulMB]

A couple of days ago a car rolled downhill into the playground of an elementary school in Italy, killing one child and injuring 5 others. The car belonged to a mother who had left the car to pick up a child, leaving another child inside the car. It seems the car had a "button handbrake, not the traditional kind with a manual lever.
Would it be possible for the child inside to free it accidentally? I understood these modern gizmos were supposed to be ultra-safe.

 

[gintonic]

mine cannot be released without a foot pushing on the foot brake. Additionally if the gearbox is left in "park" mode, the gearbox locks the drive train and it won't move.

It can be applied without the foot on the foot brake.

 

[clivem2]

Rather than the system failing it's much more likely that it was switched off and the driver hadn't realised.

 

[Stuart Frazer]

Terrible incident. My thoughts are with those affected.

Did the driver perhaps leave the ignition on? I would have thought the car shouldn't release the handbrake function unless the ignition was on. Or perhaps the driver thought they had engaged the handbrake and it hadn't.....I seem to remember having a similar problem or two with my electronic handbrake on my Vauxhall Insignia. Sometimes, when I thought I had engaged it, it hadn't. Once, the car rolled partially down the street after I had left it and went into the back of another car (fortunately, no damage as it was very low speed).

My Dad has had a couple of automatic Volvo's and for safety, you cannot turn the engine off without putting the grearbox into park (it might be possible in neutral too, but I've never tried that). Equally, the car won't start unless you have your foot on the brake. The auto hold feature of more modern cars is much better and convenient.

 

[stevec67]

Construction and Use Regs in the UK, probably the same in the EU, say that the handbrake has to be mechanical. I would do this with a simple motorised worm and rack gear operating the mechanism. Simple, effective, can't release without the motor being actively turned. Electronic handbrakes need to be actively released while the ignition is on, usually foot on brake, etc. I would consider it highly unlikely that the system could fail or be accidentally released by a child. It's probably (certainly) more secure than the traditional lever that is easy to release. Most 5 year old boys know how to release them and roll the car about. Not so an electronic one that needs the keys and a foot. Seatbelt too on mine if you want auto mode.

 

[cutting42]

Last 3 cars have been electronic brake. First was a manual as well and as I recall the handbrake was automatically applied when you stopped and took the car out of gear and released all the pedals. It would auto disengage when you went to pull away but to manually override it you had to pull up a button flap like thing but it would not work with the ignition off. The second and third were autos so transmission was locked in park when you turned the car off.

 

[JensenHealey]

Without knowing exactly what make/model/age of the car involved - then all is simple pure guesswork. Why would we have a thread about guessing what might have caused an accident somewhere far away? I don't get it.

Meanwhile, I suppose the relevant authorities in Italy are conducting a proper investigation.

 

[Stuart Frazer]

Without knowing exactly what make/model/age of the car involved - then all is simple pure guesswork.

It's a VW Passat:

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-shock-child-dies-car-laquila-nursery.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

A few years ago there was a spate of incidents where Audis would, a few minutes after being parked on a slope, trundle off til they hit something.
I’m not absolutely sure, but a faint memory tells me it was to do with hot rear brakes cooling, then losing their grip.
Anyone else remember this?

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Without knowing exactly what make/model/age of the car involved - then all is simple pure guesswork. Why would we have a thread about guessing what might have caused an accident somewhere far away? I don't get it.

It's a general question about the safety of electronic brakes.

 

[gintonic]

Electronic handbrakes need to be actively released while the ignition is on, usually foot on brake

thats how mine works

I would consider it highly unlikely that the system could fail or be accidentally released by a child.

me too

It's probably (certainly) more secure than the traditional lever that is easy to release

i agree

 

[Bananahead]

A few years ago there was a spate of incidents where Audis would, a few minutes after being parked on a slope, trundle off til they hit something.
I’m not absolutely sure, but a faint memory tells me it was to do with hot rear brakes cooling, then losing their grip.
Anyone else remember this?

Yes. But I thought that it was BMW. A friend had his 3 series written off.

 

[dweezil]

A few years ago there was a spate of incidents where Audis would, a few minutes after being parked on a slope, trundle off til they hit something.
I’m not absolutely sure, but a faint memory tells me it was to do with hot rear brakes cooling, then losing their grip.
Anyone else remember this?

Used to be quite common when you didn't pull the brake on very hard, my ex SiLaw did it with a Volvo and my daughter with her Peugeot.

We were out for dinner and initially thought the car had been stolen; it was about 400 yards away wedged against the side of a stable.

 

[stevec67]

A few years ago there was a spate of incidents where Audis would, a few minutes after being parked on a slope, trundle off til they hit something.
I’m not absolutely sure, but a faint memory tells me it was to do with hot rear brakes cooling, then losing their grip.
Anyone else remember this?

Yes, some Peugeot and Citroen of the 90s had a handbrake on the front discs and were prone to this . It was exactly as you describe, the discs contracted upon cooling and the brake lost grip. My mum once did similar in a conventional drum braked fiesta, she didn't apply the brake enough and after a few minutes it trundled very slowly down the sloping driveway and took out the neighbours fence post. I heard it rolling on the gravel and got up to see who was calling only to see it parked across the fortunate ly empty road.

 

[Mike Reed]

I've had a car demolish my front wall after the lad left it parked up my hill without putting it in gear. If on the level the vehicle won't stray, but do people remember to put it in first or reverse on a hill? I think not in many cases for manual cars. My daughter did it outside my house once and thought I was barmy when I suggested it.

 

[Funk]

A few years ago there was a spate of incidents where Audis would, a few minutes after being parked on a slope, trundle off til they hit something.
I’m not absolutely sure, but a faint memory tells me it was to do with hot rear brakes cooling, then losing their grip.
Anyone else remember this?

I remember it. I believe it was to do with the discs contracting slightly as they cooled which decreased the clamping force of the pads. Shouldn't happen if the car is an auto and in Park and - as should be sensible practice on an incline - left in-gear if manual.

It's also why they say you should turn your wheels toward the kerb when parked on a hill - if something goes wrong, the car should be physically unable to go very far and if it does, the only thing it should do is turn perpendicular across the hill and stop.

Same with stopping on the hard shoulder - turn the wheels toward the barrier in case the car's hit from behind, it stops it being punted into other vehicles in live lanes.

I would say there's zero chance of the fault lying with the child in the OP; the car wouldn't allow the handbrake to be released without the engine running and a foot on the brake.

 

[dweezil]

I remember it. I believe it was to do with the discs contracting slightly as they cooled which decreased the clamping force of the pads. Shouldn't happen if the car is an auto and in Park and - as should be sensible practice on an incline - left in-gear if manual.

It's also why they say you should turn your wheels toward the kerb when parked on a hill - if something goes wrong, the car should be physically unable to go very far and if it does, the only thing it should do is turn parallel across the hill and stop.

Same with stopping on the hard shoulder - turn the wheels toward the barrier in case the car's hit from behind, it stops it being punted into other vehicles in live lanes.

I would say there's zero chance of the fault lying with the child in the OP; the car wouldn't allow the handbrake to be released without the engine running and a foot on the brake.

Slight tangent but some say that if you're waiting to turn right in the middle of the road keep wheels straight and turn only when the road is clear to avoid a rear shunt pushing you into the path of oncoming vehicles.

 

[Funk]

Slight tangent but some say that if you're waiting to turn right in the middle of the road keep wheels straight and turn only when the road is clear to avoid a rear shunt pushing you into the path of oncoming vehicles.

Yes, that's correct. In addition to that it's also advisable to be in neutral and with the handbrake on if it looks like you might be there for longer than a few seconds. In the event you are hit from behind, the force of the impact is likely to cause your foot to come off the brake (and your other foot off the clutch if in a manual) which can make a bad situation even worse as the car will continue to try and drive forward post-impact.

In a modern automatic car with 'auto-hold' the car will continue to hold itself with the brakes on, even if hit from behind so just let it handle that for itself.

 

[twotone]

Terrible accident have to feel for all involved.

Happened to me years ago, CITREON BX, parked on a hill with the handbrake on rolled down the hill and came to a stop when it hit a lampost I only discovered what had happened when a policewoman met me coming up the hill as I was looking for the car thinking it had been stolen.

I was really lucky there were a load of kids at the bottom of the hill playing football but thankfully the car never hit any of them.

There was a traffic cop car beside my car when I eventually got there they interviewed me in the cop car and checked the handbrake had been pulled on and it was the cop said those cars were notorious for the hand brake slipping as the disc cooled down.

I always park in gear now but don’t anyone ever leave your car in second gear parked the car can start if you do that and it moves.

 

[stevec67]

Terrible accident have to feel for all involved.

Happened to me years ago, CITREON BX, parked on a hill with the handbrake on rolled down the hill and came to a stop when it hit a lampost I only discovered what had happened when a policewoman met me coming up the hill as I was looking for the car thinking it had been stolen.

I was really lucky there were a load of kids at the bottom of the hill playing football but thankfully the car never hit any of them.

There was a traffic cop car beside my car when I eventually got there they interviewed me in the cop car and checked the handbrake had been pulled on and it was the cop said those cars were notorious for the hand brake slipping as the disc cooled down.

I always park in gear now but don’t anyone ever leave your car in second gear parked the car can start if you do that and it moves.

A car won't start in any gear without the ignition on. This is especially true today when power is needed for injectors, ECU, fuel pumps, and all the rest.