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A thread to catalogue the eloquence, dignity, diplomacy and wisdom of Boris Johnson III

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Ponty said:
Look, I get the negativity and it’s not a good look for the govt right now but many people just don’t like the conservatives whoever is in the cabinet and will call for Boris et al to resign more regularly than the tide goes in and out. The best way to get them out is to vote them out. Pretty much everyone has the right to vote.
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The first sentence you wrote is bang on.
The second is geared up for Tory rule forever - FPTP suits.
 
Ponty said:
Look, I get the negativity and it’s not a good look for the govt right now but many people just don’t like the conservatives whoever is in the cabinet and will call for Boris et al to resign more regularly than the tide goes in and out. The best way to get them out is to vote them out. Pretty much everyone has the right to vote.
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Of course. But I would hope that any minister who was found to have broken the ministerial code by lying to parliament would have the decency to resign regardless of political party.

A poll yesterday showed that even 55% of Conservative voters believe he should go. I honestly think this cuts across party lines.
 
Tony L said:

Kay Burley vs. the lying entity currently trading under the name ‘Grant Shapps’ on Sky is spectacular. She can be very good when she’s genuinely angry about the lies being thrown at her. The topic swiftly moved to honour and “Shapps” kept on trying to defend the clearly indefensible long after anyone sane would have conceded defeat and let the corrupt lying criminal rat he works for sink in the sea of his own shit. Burley even threw past sackings and Hillsborough at “Shapps” when discussing honour vs. Johnson. Genuinely astonishing to watch.

I have no idea why anyone else should respect the laws of the UK if those elected to govern so willingly trample all over them and then lie to cover their fat entitled arses. This Conservative government has absolutely destroyed the very concept of UK government IMHO. There is a direct parallel with Trump refusing to heed to an election result. The grasping egotism and entitlement, the lying, the theft, the criminality, the mass defence of criminality (PPE fraud, Owen Patterson, Johnson, Sunak etc etc) has rendered the whole system dysfunctional. The Conservative Party is a zero-integrity zone. It is just a criminal entity defending its criminality on a daily basis.
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Watched this interview. Waste of time, they all close ranks and lie for each other
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Good point. Had he said 'nobody has a duty to pay more tax than legally required' that might have been nearer the mark. Semantics really, though. But the wider point is that most people don't get any control over what tax they pay. The question as to what 'duty' they have is somewhat moot and tax avoidance is largely the preserve of the already comfortably off who, it may be argued, have a moral duty not to minimise their tax bill but to share their good fortune with those less fortunate.
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I don't think any kind of duty comes into it. Allowing any tax to be voluntary at the individual level is madness. That's charity not tax. We vote together and set rules as a collective. Individual opt outs undermine the whole point of democratic government.

As for tax specifically, I think we've been gulled. It's obvious that our apparently fair and progressive tax system is now little more than painted Hollywood scenery maintained to prevent us all voting down the tax free VIP lounges carefully built and tucked behind the plywood.

I actually think tax avoidance is slowly strangling democracy and I'd say we the public should simply never allow the Chancellor's job to be occupied by anyone who is heavily invested in its continuance or so obviously well positioned to profit further from any expansion in its scope.

Instead we should make sure the job always goes to someone who has a government salary and nothing else. And we should dismantle the VIP lounges. It's not impossible, it's not even hard, and there will be no huge economic price to pay. We're deceived about those things too.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Of course. But I would hope that any minister who was found to have broken the ministerial code by lying to parliament would have the decency to resign regardless of political party.

A poll yesterday showed that even 55% of Conservative voters believe he should go. I honestly think this cuts across party lines.
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Just like Blair with the WMD’s! The reasons for Boris to go will be nuanced within conservative voters. For many it will be more to do with him being a potential liability at the next GE than what he’s actually doing now.
 
Ponty said:
Look, I get the negativity and it’s not a good look for the govt right now but many people just don’t like the conservatives whoever is in the cabinet and will call for Boris et al to resign more regularly than the tide goes in and out. The best way to get them out is to vote them out. Pretty much everyone has the right to vote.
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Many, many of the calls for resignations have been on grounds that would definitely have merited resignations in times past. You're making it sound like the calls for resignation are just the cut & thrust of politics, when they're actually a justified response to seriously inappropriate, or worse, conduct.

And, if you recall, people did vote out Zac Goldsmith, and the government response was to appoint him to the Lords and keep him in his post. We are being played for fools and you keep on defending it. And once again, your point about voting is said with the complacency of one who knows the deck is stacked in favour of his side.
 
Ponty said:
The reasons for Boris to go will be nuanced within conservative voters. For many it will be more to do with him being a potential liability at the next GE than what he’s actually doing now.
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Nuanced? There's little nuance in the conduct of our current government. And I find myself both disgusted and disheartened that many Tory voters will actually weigh in the balance what is good for the party, when deciding, and will think that's a morally defensible position.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Nuanced? There's little nuance in the conduct of our current government. And I find myself both disgusted and disheartened that many Tory voters will actually weigh in the balance what is good for the party, when deciding, and will think that's a morally defensible position.
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This is spot on.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Many, many of the calls for resignations have been on grounds that would definitely have merited resignations in times past. You're making it sound like the calls for resignation are just the cut & thrust of politics, when they're actually a justified response to seriously inappropriate, or worse, conduct.

And, if you recall, people did vote out Zac Goldsmith, and the government response was to appoint him to the Lords and keep him in his post. We are being played for fools and you keep on defending it. And once again, your point about voting is said with the complacency of one who knows the deck is stacked in favour of his side.
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I’ve lost count of the number of calls for Boris to resign. The more calls there are, the less likely it is to happen. That Blackford chap is like the boy who cries wolf. Of course, when it comes to the deck being stacked, this applies equally to HM opposition, who, to my knowledge, have no plans to change the system. Making the deck stacked equally.
 
Ponty said:
I’ve lost count of the number of calls for Boris to resign. The more calls there are, the less likely it is to happen. That Blackford chap is like the boy who cries wolf. Of course, when it comes to the deck being stacked, this applies equally to HM opposition, who, to my knowledge, have no plans to change the system. Making the deck stacked equally.
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A government that pushes a population too far with the endless lying, corruption, hypocrisy and utter contempt for their office runs the real risk of being burned out of office. I suspect this possibility is now in view on the horizon. I have never lived through a government with such utter contempt for the rule of law, democratic process, honour or duty to the electorate.
 
Ponty said:
It’s just reality and would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot.
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Labour criminality during the ‘expenses scandal’ resulted in resignations and even imprisonment. This Tory criminality is just a tool to taunt the working poor and covid bereaved. They deem themselves to be above account. Big difference. They are undermining the very concepts of elected government and the rule of law.
 
Ponty said:
I’ve lost count of the number of calls for Boris to resign. The more calls there are, the less likely it is to happen.
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FWIW much as I'd love to see Boris do the right thing - mostly because he's currently setting some very dodgy precedents - it's not like there's much talent waiting in the wings to step in. Truss? Hunt? Gove? God help us all.
 
Ponty said:
I’ve lost count of the number of calls for Boris to resign. The more calls there are, the less likely it is to happen. That Blackford chap is like the boy who cries wolf...
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I've lost count of the number of things Boris has done that would ordinarily require resignation. I hope and expect Blackford is keeping count for both of us. I know somebody will be doing. The rest of your argument is basically an admission that the Tory party is in thrall to the Parliamentary party and has abandoned its principles.
 
Ponty said:
Sunak is not a tax evader, neither is his wife. Everyone has a duty to pay no more tax than legally required. Sure, you could review the non dom rules. Labour had plenty of time and opportunity to do so but were clearly perfectly comfortable with them. Funny how everyone loved Rishi when he was doling out cash like a one armed bandit stuck on the jackpot setting. Now the reality of that policy is starting to bite, he’s public enemy No 1. Of course, if enough people are sufficiently unhappy, they can vote the govt out in a couple of years.
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You are quite right. Sunak is not a tax evader. He is a shameless tax avoider. While this is not legally wrong, the fact that he has decreed that taxes need to be raised for millions of taxpayers to fund government spending, while avoiding paying as much tax as possible himself, is morally repugnant
 
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