Is There A Glass Ceiling Operating In Audio?
- Thread starter GT
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cctaylor
pfm Member
See :-
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/3-2-1.266600/
My Linn Naim system from the 70s would cost IRO £20k + in current £ allowing for inflation. These cables are twice that
Mynamemynaim
38yrs a Naim owner
I think chord and it's products with field gate technology have made a step forward
S-Man
StrivingON
Mynamemynaim
38yrs a Naim owner
Lol
Rockmeister
pfm Member
we all know so much, well some of us do
could there be a PFM design and engineering team to make some magic then?
could there be a PFM design and engineering team to make some magic then?
FireMoon
pfm Member
Aside from experiences in studios, as teenager in the 1970s my exposure to "High End" kit came almost exclusively from often seriously dodgy bars dotted around Europe where the fug of slightly acrid cannabis smoke was a dead give away. Often tucked away in some street even the pickpockets were loathe to venture into in case they might be "infected" , I had some, verging on spiritual experiences, under the influence of "Afghani Black" , which was slightly harder than anthracite and looked remarkably similar. listening to some of those systems. The fully pro EMT turntable in the cupboard of a tiny bar in the Juliana district of Copenhagen driving a walloping great pair of JBL studio monitors via a pair of grey import Pioneer power amps, was a religious experience.
My experience was that, the Venn Diagram of stoners and Hi-fi nuts was, for me, a almost a single circle. There was a definite "culture" clash between my generation and the "Rivet counters" who had grown up in the 50s and early 60s and seemed to be mostly, into jazz, if not the incumbent "cigarettes" that it came with as part of its baggage. Funnily enough, decades later, it's still the "stoner mates" who who buy still buy Hi=fi and everyone of us have infected ..cough cough, our offspring with the "hobby" by a form of osmosis. Several of my friends have upgraded their vinyl systems as result of their offspring taking "That old Turntable of yours" to college with them.
As such, I feel I belong to an entire generation who are treated as "invisible" and yet, without us. I strongly suspect several brands would have vanished as the multi-media world took over from the days of "TV, Film, Albums/Radio and Books hegemony". Without wishing to make this political, those bars, that launched a thousand lusts for better kit, were driven out by the corporatisation of Europe. What was once "essentially sleaze and yet safe" has become an anodyne facsimile of those experiences where today's "Yoof" are told "They are having a wonderful time...sponsored by", not making their minds up for themselves and the music they are exposed to is likewise, almost wholly corporately sponsored.
There lies the conundrum at the heart of anything that involves art, the movers and shakers are nearly always "outsiders from the fringe" and yet, at some point, everyone has to gird up their loins and talk turkey about business and making some sort of "career". Most improvement in Hi-fi were achieved, not because there was some fiscal end game, rather, it was just someone, somewhere, thinking, "You can improve on that surely?".
If you want an example of someone who is a "good person", the dude who owns both the Access synth and Kemper amp modelling brands. They invented the downloadable firmware upgrade and my 10 year old Kemper receives free updates for life. I have a feeling he and dear old Ivor would not "get on"...
https://andertonsmusic.podbean.com/e/christoph-kemper-–-the-captain-meets/
My experience was that, the Venn Diagram of stoners and Hi-fi nuts was, for me, a almost a single circle. There was a definite "culture" clash between my generation and the "Rivet counters" who had grown up in the 50s and early 60s and seemed to be mostly, into jazz, if not the incumbent "cigarettes" that it came with as part of its baggage. Funnily enough, decades later, it's still the "stoner mates" who who buy still buy Hi=fi and everyone of us have infected ..cough cough, our offspring with the "hobby" by a form of osmosis. Several of my friends have upgraded their vinyl systems as result of their offspring taking "That old Turntable of yours" to college with them.
As such, I feel I belong to an entire generation who are treated as "invisible" and yet, without us. I strongly suspect several brands would have vanished as the multi-media world took over from the days of "TV, Film, Albums/Radio and Books hegemony". Without wishing to make this political, those bars, that launched a thousand lusts for better kit, were driven out by the corporatisation of Europe. What was once "essentially sleaze and yet safe" has become an anodyne facsimile of those experiences where today's "Yoof" are told "They are having a wonderful time...sponsored by", not making their minds up for themselves and the music they are exposed to is likewise, almost wholly corporately sponsored.
There lies the conundrum at the heart of anything that involves art, the movers and shakers are nearly always "outsiders from the fringe" and yet, at some point, everyone has to gird up their loins and talk turkey about business and making some sort of "career". Most improvement in Hi-fi were achieved, not because there was some fiscal end game, rather, it was just someone, somewhere, thinking, "You can improve on that surely?".
If you want an example of someone who is a "good person", the dude who owns both the Access synth and Kemper amp modelling brands. They invented the downloadable firmware upgrade and my 10 year old Kemper receives free updates for life. I have a feeling he and dear old Ivor would not "get on"...
https://andertonsmusic.podbean.com/e/christoph-kemper-–-the-captain-meets/
Roy Gregory always did use a lot of words in Hi Fi+. I have to admit I bought 4 products he recommended,JBL K2 speakers, Vacuum State 300b amps, Grand Prix turntable and Zanden CD player, the last two were unheard. This is the point he didn't mention, that most people want to hear the product demonstrated. With fewer Shows and Hi Fi dealers this is an added problem for the industry. I do believe some "Veblen" Hi Fi is sold because of the label, it looks good, and probably most important, it is expensive.
VanDerGraaf
pfm Member
@FireMoon
Beautiful post and one which tugged at my heartstrings. You truly understand the idea of the "reproduction of music as divine influence", which is certainly how I see it. Also, your unfortunately accurate assessment of how art and its propogation is so often destroyed by corporate interest rang a jagged bell.
Good point about the Kemper as well. My ex-bandmate has been running his for many years now, in no small part due to the altruistic attitudes displayed by the manufacturer.
Sorry I have gone OT, thought it was worth mentioning.
Beautiful post and one which tugged at my heartstrings. You truly understand the idea of the "reproduction of music as divine influence", which is certainly how I see it. Also, your unfortunately accurate assessment of how art and its propogation is so often destroyed by corporate interest rang a jagged bell.
Good point about the Kemper as well. My ex-bandmate has been running his for many years now, in no small part due to the altruistic attitudes displayed by the manufacturer.
Sorry I have gone OT, thought it was worth mentioning.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Well, yes .. and no. And - Yes!
Rob Watts started on that approach in the very-early 90s with DPA / Deltec's later digital products... what has changed is the scale, the FPGA computing density, and therefore - total power requirements. others have ..tinkered... in the same field since, but just on your theme -
On one hand, I've an DPA SX256*, one of the Deltec unicorns, with offboard supplies, 13 FPGAs, and c. 50w total draw inc. discrete output stages... it all runs hot.
On the other, a Chord Mojo, which probably betters it (has better stats, technically) - with an internal battery good for 8hrs, drives IEMs directly, that fits in a pocket ..!
But there is a straight-line between the two, and it's very, very much shorter than you think.
* long-term loan from a generous member here, given I have / use & enjoy much other Deltec eqpt
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Seen in those "lifestyle" magazines next to the Bentley advertorials and bought by personal buyers for footballers. Probably never even switched on in their new home.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Yes, one of the few apart from digital
sean99
pfm Member
What about DSP based room correction ? Or active monitors using class-D amplification and a DSP based crossover ?
I must admit to never having heard them, and I haven't bought any hifi in a long time, but it seems there have been real technological advances in pro audio
https://www.genelec.com/8351B
The home market seems to be more prone to Belt-ian foo and magic fairy dust.
Werner
pfm Member
The very same Roy Gregory who is one of those responsible for the situation he is now decrying in that article? The same Roy Gregory whose most frequently used word in his reviews is 'far', as in 'far, far better''? The same Roy Gregory who did not know the difference between being an editor and being a marketing VP for a cable company?
That was a very long read that basically states the obvious, especially the potential (lets be honest, real) conflict between media that needs advertising revenue and their so called impartial reviews.
Though he drops a few manufacturers names at the end he gives no clue as to why they are innovators. I had a quick look on their websites and couldn't see anything particularly exciting.
Personally speaking I think the biggest problem by far in most people's set ups is the speaker/room interaction. This is where I'd like to see R and D go, it has started to happen with outfits like Dutch and Dutch, Weonicke etc.
No point manufacturers just churning out bigger, more luxurious speakers with exotic driver materials if they sound pants once placed in the typical UK room.
Though he drops a few manufacturers names at the end he gives no clue as to why they are innovators. I had a quick look on their websites and couldn't see anything particularly exciting.
Personally speaking I think the biggest problem by far in most people's set ups is the speaker/room interaction. This is where I'd like to see R and D go, it has started to happen with outfits like Dutch and Dutch, Weonicke etc.
No point manufacturers just churning out bigger, more luxurious speakers with exotic driver materials if they sound pants once placed in the typical UK room.
VanDerGraaf
pfm Member
JoeJoe
pfm Member
….Chord haven’t really moved on since their technological ground-breaker, Dac64 and from memory, that’s maybe 18 years ago…..
I’ve noticed that very little has moved on sound wise in the HiFi world; progress on pricing only. Everything sounded great 20 years ago and still does now but I literally baulk at pricing and was doing so pre-covid, let alone where it’s got to currently!
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
And the same Roy Gregory who often used the phrase 'something of a bargain' about hifi costing tens of thousands of pounds, and who wrote that string quartet recordings could only be truly appreciated via speakers costing hundreds of thousands of pounds?