davidsrsb
pfm Member
Sounds like a buffer overflow from clocking, a software or design bug
DAB/DAB+ Tuners currently available?
- Thread starter Jim Audiomisc
- Start date
In my opinion My Arcam T32 was one of the last good DAB tuners ever made. The DT32 used a Radioscape front end but fed the digital signal through an outboard Wolfson DAC. It can't fix up poor bitrates but if you stumble across a higher bit rate signal it can sound quite good. The AM / FM section used an old school PLL that was surprisingly good. After the T32, I think Arcam realised the direction that DAB was taking and decided to Opt-out of any further development of DAB as a high-quality music format.
As has already been said, nearly all current DAB tuners use a monolithic Front end module that does every thing in software. This generally means all tuners are going to sound and perform pretty much the same as the number of module manufacturers is very small. The low bit rates don't help much either. Don't bother getting excited about DAB plus, the ensemble operators use this an an excuse to drive down bit rates even more. Most of the offerings from Rotel, Yamaha, Cambridge Audio, Marantz etc. are going to offer similar performance, they are just variations on features more than anything else. Most of these products are designed to fill a space in a HiFi product range or slot into a “branded system” rather than offer a high-quality radio experience as a stand-alone component.
I also feel that FM is starting to go down this path as the operators look for other ways to attract younger audiences. Style and feature sets are bigger selling points over sound quality and technical performance. Sad; but a commercial reality.
Having just moved to an Australian regional area in a different state with poor FM reception and no DAB, I have been using a Samsung Tablet with a good Bluetooth receiver connected directly to the Aux input (thus by-passing the DAC in the Tablet). I now stream the radio from the net. I still get to listen to my favorited Radio stations from my old city location, the reception is perfect and I don't have to faff about with antennas.
LPSpinner...
As has already been said, nearly all current DAB tuners use a monolithic Front end module that does every thing in software. This generally means all tuners are going to sound and perform pretty much the same as the number of module manufacturers is very small. The low bit rates don't help much either. Don't bother getting excited about DAB plus, the ensemble operators use this an an excuse to drive down bit rates even more. Most of the offerings from Rotel, Yamaha, Cambridge Audio, Marantz etc. are going to offer similar performance, they are just variations on features more than anything else. Most of these products are designed to fill a space in a HiFi product range or slot into a “branded system” rather than offer a high-quality radio experience as a stand-alone component.
I also feel that FM is starting to go down this path as the operators look for other ways to attract younger audiences. Style and feature sets are bigger selling points over sound quality and technical performance. Sad; but a commercial reality.
Radio is dead and we have Killed it.
Having just moved to an Australian regional area in a different state with poor FM reception and no DAB, I have been using a Samsung Tablet with a good Bluetooth receiver connected directly to the Aux input (thus by-passing the DAC in the Tablet). I now stream the radio from the net. I still get to listen to my favorited Radio stations from my old city location, the reception is perfect and I don't have to faff about with antennas.
LPSpinner...
Ptah
pfm Member
Not true. Some of us find the instant quality of pressing the on button on a DAB radio really useful, especially as so much else (FM especially) is subject to interference. Also in the car, though I usually find FM works pretty well in that environment.
However, portable radios these days are nearly gone. Agreed DAB tuners are pretty pointless, especially as reception is usually bad.
But one person's setup isn't the same as another's.... E.g. we always turn our broadband off overnight......
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, I guess I inevitably view things from my own perspective, and I’m not a driver so didn’t even consider the mobile aspect. I’d still argue DAB has no context in a hi-fi system as internet radio has it killed from every scope and qualitative perspective.
I’d also argue that analogue radio has a wider scope and needs keeping open. My two traditional Roberts radios (an R25 and R200) powered from their big old square 9V battery would still work after even a nuclear strike and can pick up broadcasts from outside the UK. Even more so if one has a radio with short-wave band etc. These are not tools to give up easily. As I only tend to listen to Radio 4 these days they do all I need from a radio too.
I’d also argue that analogue radio has a wider scope and needs keeping open. My two traditional Roberts radios (an R25 and R200) powered from their big old square 9V battery would still work after even a nuclear strike and can pick up broadcasts from outside the UK. Even more so if one has a radio with short-wave band etc. These are not tools to give up easily. As I only tend to listen to Radio 4 these days they do all I need from a radio too.
slavedata
pfm Member
Might be useful given the current world situation
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
The discussion about the (poor) quality if DAB is interesting, but for me just goes though what we already know: That the sound quality has been sacrified - quantity has trumped quality!
However my curiousity is over the possibilty that even poorer results may come from *some* DAB radios in some locations because of the absence of a - potentially externally addable - RF filter. This kind of thing does crop up in TV reception, so may also occur with DAB.
FM tuners tend to have a decent RF filter before the mixer, and this determines how well they reject adjacent/alternate channels, etc. Can make a big difference in some locations. FM is also planned with interference in mind, whereas digital radio and TV take for granted that you can use every slot and fill the band with channels, often at similar power levels.
However my curiousity is over the possibilty that even poorer results may come from *some* DAB radios in some locations because of the absence of a - potentially externally addable - RF filter. This kind of thing does crop up in TV reception, so may also occur with DAB.
FM tuners tend to have a decent RF filter before the mixer, and this determines how well they reject adjacent/alternate channels, etc. Can make a big difference in some locations. FM is also planned with interference in mind, whereas digital radio and TV take for granted that you can use every slot and fill the band with channels, often at similar power levels.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
This examples a parallel of what I'm wondering about
http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/DVBscans.png
It shows the spectrum used for UK Digital Video Broadcasting at two points in the past. I've used the example where OfCrap sold off the top part for phone use, meaning the TV transmissions had to be shifted down, and users needed a filter in some areas (as where Iive) to prevent the phone base stations overpowering TVs. Note that the 2019 spectrum has shoved together a series of TV broadcasts shoulder-to-shoulder. That means the TV needs a better front-end.
Since then OfCrap has flogged off *more* of this band, so the TV is even more squeezed into a smaller spectrum. And as a result some people will have needed a new TV or someone with a filter to deal with it. But unlike last time they kept *very* quiet about it and hoped people wouldn't know the cause or ask for a free remedial filter... Last time they handed out filters for free, but you had to know to ask for one.
http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/DVBscans.png
It shows the spectrum used for UK Digital Video Broadcasting at two points in the past. I've used the example where OfCrap sold off the top part for phone use, meaning the TV transmissions had to be shifted down, and users needed a filter in some areas (as where Iive) to prevent the phone base stations overpowering TVs. Note that the 2019 spectrum has shoved together a series of TV broadcasts shoulder-to-shoulder. That means the TV needs a better front-end.
Since then OfCrap has flogged off *more* of this band, so the TV is even more squeezed into a smaller spectrum. And as a result some people will have needed a new TV or someone with a filter to deal with it. But unlike last time they kept *very* quiet about it and hoped people wouldn't know the cause or ask for a free remedial filter... Last time they handed out filters for free, but you had to know to ask for one.
ex brickie
pfm Member
Wow! We've had some cable wars on this forum........... but chased out of town?!
Aethelist
pfm Member
Still using a Meridian F80 as a kitchen system here. Pretty good as a DAB source but an iPad mini docked into the aux input streaming FLAC on Radio Paradise makes you realise just how poor DAB radio broadcasts sound.
Can't listen to the BBC nowadays
Life's too short.
https://www.stereophile.com/fmtuners/408mer/index.html
Can't listen to the BBC nowadays
Life's too short.
https://www.stereophile.com/fmtuners/408mer/index.html
Frizzy
Liberal anarchist
I have bought several “hifi’ dab tuners and using iether onboard dac or my Brinkmann Nyquist they sound musically repulsive, my cars too old and only has fm and cd so lot of radio 4 en route.
DAB is that pigs ear that can never be silk. Radio 6 is truly unlistenable.
I am probably last to admit but my internet radio is now better than fm,took awhile and lots of tweeks and routers considered foo by many, but yes the phone line won.
DAB is that pigs ear that can never be silk. Radio 6 is truly unlistenable.
I am probably last to admit but my internet radio is now better than fm,took awhile and lots of tweeks and routers considered foo by many, but yes the phone line won.
cctaylor
pfm Member
I find the DAB in my 2016 Skoda Octavia reasonably listenable while driving. On the other hand my wife's 2012 Ford Fiesta Titanium is awful on DAB or FM.
The choice of stations from DAB is useful. However round the house though I use a Minirig 3 Bluetooth speaker fed over the internet from my phone or tablet. The Minirig is remarkable for the size.
The choice of stations from DAB is useful. However round the house though I use a Minirig 3 Bluetooth speaker fed over the internet from my phone or tablet. The Minirig is remarkable for the size.