CD Better than Records?
- Thread starter maccar
- Start date
Del monaco
Del Monaco
They’re different.
kensalriser
pfm Member
I would add recording in front of mastering.
daytona600
Registered User
Mastering - Format
LP - AAA
SACD
Digital vinyl remasters / CD
LP - AAA
SACD
Digital vinyl remasters / CD
I have ( classical LPs ) and cds of the same work and on my system they sound the same down even to sound faults.
I also have a few albums on both CD and LP and similar to you find that the characteristics are spookily similar.
I still usually prefer the LP though
jimification
pfm Member
On our LP only system, the gap between the best and worst sounding records is quite significant (from: "Wow!" to: "Meh..."). I would therefore fully expect other formats to "dovetail" into the hierarchy. It would be odd if another format like CD was compared and found to be ALL better or ALL worse than vinyl (though each format obviously has it's own particular inherent qualities that might lead to a general preference)
Tony L
Administrator
Absolutely. It is always about mastering and all aspects of quality control. There are some truly horrible sounding records out there (‘80s budget reissues on recycled vinyl cut from x-generation tapes, foreign copies from who knows what master etc), just as there are CDs that are all but unlistenable (compressed to the point dynamic range is little more than a binary on/off, bass boosted, clipped etc). I’ve long argued I could tip a vinyl vs. CD whichever way I wanted to. To the point I could get a Dual 505 to beat a full dCS stack, a Discman to beat Fremer’s house-priced turntable or whatever. All you need is a really great CD and a crap record, or vice versa. This really is a ‘source first’ argument. If the mastering of a specific CD or record is bad it can not ever be fixed later in the replay chain. You can’t put dynamic range etc back.
There are also titles where vinyl is at a huge disadvantage to start with, e.g. anything with a playing time much beyond 20 minutes a side (around 18 is optimal IIRC, beyond that you lose around a db of cut level per extra minute). This is why classic jazz albums, which tend to play for 15 minutes a side, can sound so spectacularly real and dynamic where some classical symphonies and opera movements really suffer, especially if they have a large build-up towards the end.
I will argue all day long that any serious music lover needs multiple formats. You need to go where both the best music and the best master is, not force it to your choice of format. I can play 78s, all speeds of vinyl (even 16rpm, though I’ve never seen a record), CD, SACD, DVD-A, BluRay, most computer formats, cassette, open reel (only 7” at 7.5ips max) etc. Basically I’m missing 8-track, DCC, MiniDisc and DAT, I can play pretty much anything else!
the caretaker
pfm Member
Have tried recording from qobuz in hi res onto your reel to reel and then comparing it to the qobuz version? 'assuming you do qobuz hi res of course'
RichardAusten
pfm Member
The CD format is technically superior but not necessarily aurally superior based on the recording/mastering but also the quality of the playback chain.
Best of all - in 2022 most audiophiles can afford to buy a turntable, a CD player, and computer-based audio. Then it doesn't matter which is better - just play music.
Best of all - in 2022 most audiophiles can afford to buy a turntable, a CD player, and computer-based audio. Then it doesn't matter which is better - just play music.
Precisely, I am a CD chap predominantly as I don't like the concept of streaming ... luddite in that regard as like to have something tangible in my hand, but SQ wise I have heard streaming, vinyl and CD all sound amazing and all sound terrible... depending on the mastering, recording etc. I have CD and vinyl and don't worry about whether one is better than another.. I just like music
Just the other day I compared my 2 LP's (original 70's, one US one European, both cut at The Mastering Lab) of Joan Armatrading's Show Some Emotions with a very early CD (bought in 1986). I was very careful with level matching. Difference? The Lp's sounding a bit fuller in the bass, not much else. The difference could be in the mastering or replay (LP12's infamous bass honk?), but hardly from one system of storing music is superior to the other.
Tony L
Administrator
My open reel deck is a lovely old Akai 4000DB I won at the local auction for £30! It is fully working, but unrestored beyond my replacing the drive belts and pinch-roller (which had a dent in it as someone had obviously left it in ‘play’ for a long while). It hasn’t been recapped, all transistors are original etc. As such it does sound like a tape deck. It actually sounds superb IMO, not totally transparent, it adds a bit of bass kick, heft and just a little tape hiss. I mastered some stuff I’d done in Logic onto it and actually prefer the sound as it adds something ‘organic’ that I like. I view it as a very subtle FX unit/creative tool. This is the key reason I’ve not gone any further with restoration. There are no bulging or leaking caps to be seen in there so I’ll leave it be as I like it. FWIW it is vastly better sonically than my Sony WM-D6C Walkman Pro, though one would expect that given I record at 7.5ips and it is quiet enough not to need noise reduction (it does have Dolby should I want it).
I don’t have Qobuz or any other streaming subscription (I use Youtube to explore and buy what I like on vinyl or CD).
the caretaker
pfm Member
Cool.my mate bought a original teac machine and it sounds just great..reason I asked about taping from hi res source..he taped from qobuz hi res , Sgt peppers and Abbey Road.. apart from the instantly noticeable more musicality ( toe tapping, and better ability to follow melody line esp bass..such musical bass! Fantastic on reel to reel ) but the other thing which is most strange is you hear more! On comparison to qobuz version it's quite apparent? My partner who is very good on classical guitar but has no interest in my hifi noticed this..I tried it on cassette tape and it was also noticeable on smaller scale! Not sure if anyone else has tried this? And noticed what me and my mate noticed?
Ptah
pfm Member
Coincidentally I compared my copies of Joni's Court & Spark - thinking do I really need both, it's not my favourite. LP is a UK original from 1974, nicely pressed; CD is the US HDCD copy (generally not available in the UK) from early 2000s. LP had more nuanced vocals but sounded lumpier lower down and the backing wasn't as clearly layered; CD had more 'superficial' vocals but the whole picture was a lot clearer and the bass end much firmer. So yes, different and uncomparable, really. Only tangible difference was the fabulous artwork of the LP vs the almost invisible CD cover.
I don't know how it is possible to compare both formats. The replay medium is completely different. You can compare two CD players in the same system and decide which you prefer. You can compare the same CDP in different systems and see how it compares.
But how can you compare a record player with a CDP? They are completely different. How do you measure them? Price? One uses a lump of rock to trace a groove in a piece of plastic and the other uses a beam of light to read ones and zeroes.
Its a pointless comparison.
I have a turntable/arm/cartridge combo that costs significantly more than my CDP. If I listen to a CD I enjoy it. But if I then listen to my record replay system after listening to CDs then it is hugely better than the CD player. But then I'd expect it to be for the price of the respected systems.
E.
But how can you compare a record player with a CDP? They are completely different. How do you measure them? Price? One uses a lump of rock to trace a groove in a piece of plastic and the other uses a beam of light to read ones and zeroes.
Its a pointless comparison.
I have a turntable/arm/cartridge combo that costs significantly more than my CDP. If I listen to a CD I enjoy it. But if I then listen to my record replay system after listening to CDs then it is hugely better than the CD player. But then I'd expect it to be for the price of the respected systems.
E.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I can well believe this. I've enjoyed tinkering with the Isotope tape emulator which I imagine produces a broadly similar effect to the real (or reel!) thing.
Very subjective but I think I basically prefer a more 'glued' sound to a cleaner more analytical sound.
Whaleblue
Southbound
True, but the recording is what it is - the same for CD or LP - hence mastering being the true differentiator between CD and LP.
Notwithstanding the joy of TTs if that floats your boat!