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Integrated phono stage versus stand-alone.

C

Chas B

pfm Member
I've always used the phono-stage that comes with the integrated amplifiers that I've owned but have never tried a stand-alone unit. I'm wondering what I can expect from upgrading to such a device? I'm mainly listening to a Sugden A21a, could I expect worthwhile improvements with a budget around £400 for a new or maybe secondhand unit?
 
Yes, most definitely, the onboard phonostage in a Sugden A21a is OK but you can do much better within your budget.
 
This is something I've gave a lot of thought to recently

I'll watch this thread with interest
 
Chas B said:
I've always used the phono-stage that comes with the integrated amplifiers that I've owned but have never tried a stand-alone unit. I'm wondering what I can expect from upgrading to such a device? I'm mainly listening to a Sugden A21a, could I expect worthwhile improvements with a budget around £400 for a new or maybe secondhand unit?
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Which A21a?
 
Darren L said:
Yes, most definitely, the onboard phonostage in a Sugden A21a is OK but you can do much better within your budget.
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I couldn't agree more. I went from the Croft 25R Phono to a match made in heaven in the A21a, but the phono stage wasn't a patch on the Croft (unsurprisingly).
You could try a Croft RIAA or try to get a Simaudio Moon phono maybe - both impressed me.
 
FWIW, my preamp has/had an on-board phono input (user-replaceable/removable).

I have since moved to an external phono stage, which is ca. 3-4 times more expensive than the built in and it is *a lot* better, WRT clarity and details - thus after this experience I'd always go for an external phono pre.

Not sure how much difference you will hear in the 400UKP price range but definitely give it a try. Or perhaps use the 400UKP to get an SUT (if you are using an MC cartridge) and keep using the phono stage of the Sudgen in MM mode?
 
Chas B said:
Thanks Darren, anything in particular that you would suggest ?
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I loved my A21a, great amp imho but I found the onboard phonostage just OK, my favourite phonostage at that time was the EAR 834 (Trichord Dino was good too) and a CJ EF1.
Graham Slee had just introduced his phonostage Era Gold at that time which I also liked with the Elevator EXP.
I'd like to try a Rega Aria nowadays or one of Jez's Cambridge based phonostages if I was using just MCs.
 
I bought a Puresound valve P10 to use with my A21SE and much preferred it over my previous Lehmann Black Cube SE. Now, having had the P10 PSU heavily breathed upon with an oversized tranny and choke housed in the old P10 case and Salas regulation but respecting the original circuit for the rest in another case, I reckon it´s now the most defining part of my Frankenstein system. I never rated the A21a phono input when I had my A21a ( the one with cursive writing and black button).

I don´t know if it sounds as if I were at the concert but the rim shots are startlingly real on my Steely Dan and Michelangeli´s piano tone is delightfully decadent in its decay -( How´s that for Pseud´s Corner ?)
 
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Darren L said:
I loved my A21a, great amp imho but I found the onboard phonostage just OK, my favourite phonostage at that time was the EAR 834 (Trichord Dino was good too) and a CJ EF1.
Graham Slee had just introduced his phonostage Era Gold at that time which I also liked with the Elevator EXP.
I'd like to try a Rega Aria nowadays or one of Jez's Cambridge based phonostages if I was using just MCs.
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I'd just like to point out that whilst my phono stages re-use the casework and wall wart etc of the Cambridge Audio 640P/651P the circuitry is all mine after conversion:)

Oh and that I do two models, the Arkless 640P which is MM and MC compatible and the Arkless GTi which is MC only.
 
IME, provided the loading suits your cartridge, some of the best integrated MM phono stages are in Japanese amplifiers from the late 70s to the early to mid 80s.

Right now I’m using the phono stage of a c.1982 Technics integrated into my A&R A60. It’s an improvement, although the A60’s one is good enough on its own terms, and is really only significantly let down by a narrower FR.

I also have an early 90s Yamaha integrated with a plenty competent MM phono stage - actually much better than I expected. Again, it has a wide FR. I reduced the capacitance from 200uF to 100uF.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
I'd just like to point out that whilst my phono stages re-use the casework and wall wart etc of the Cambridge Audio 640P/651P the circuitry is all mine after conversion:)

Oh and that I do two models, the Arkless 640P which is MM and MC compatible and the Arkless GTi which is MC only.
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Is there a long lead time / waiting list on these Jez? thanks
 
Separate phono stages are sometimes better sometimes not. I don't think a £400 stage is going to blow the Sugden stage away. You will need to spend more.

Years ago I had an Audio Analogue Bellini pre circa £500 and bought a Musical Fidelity phono - one of the tube shaped ones which was £150. The Musical Fidelity was quieter but otherwise lacked anything. The AA stage was noisier but had life and energy.

I keep thinking about this as I use the MM phono stage in my VTL pre with a Rothwell step up but there is so much life in it and it is so quiet that money is better spent elsewhere.
 
I prefer integrated in my case Accuphase - less cabling, no need for extra shelving and no need to pay for casework.

I did like the Lehmann though.
 
Durmbo said:
IME, provided the loading suits your cartridge, some of the best integrated MM phono stages are in Japanese amplifiers from the late 70s to the early to mid 80s.
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That would make sense, of course, since phono would have been the primary input in that era. I would think any high quality amp from that time ought to have a pretty decent built in phono stage as a result.

Were there many aftermarket / external phono stages around back then?
 
Exposure do really good phono cards for their top integrated amp and pre amps. The cards are really good, you can adjust for gain etc even on the MM one. The cards are the same as they used in their standalone reference phono stage which they have since stopped making, assume not enough demand maybe… the circuitry on the cards is actually more advanced than on their current standalone half width stage, so highly recommend if you use exposure and I think you would need to spend a lot on a standalone stage to beat the cards which cost c. £300 each.
Also just crossing over to another thread, the great thing about the cards being optional is you only pay for it if you want it ie if you only want the amp that is all you pay for.
 
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