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Naim Solstice officially unveiled . . .

Mr Pig said:
I'm not arguing about any of that. People in business want to make money, super. This is true of any business, yes? You could apply the same description to pimps or drug dealers. Point being that the desire to make money doesn't justify how you do it and if it involves taking advantage of people in some way, I'm out.
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People are free to choose, as you are. It'd be quite different if Naim came knocking on your door and refused to leave until you agree to a home trial like Kirby vacuum cleaner salespeople do.
 
James said:
People are free to choose, as you are. It'd be quite different if Naim came knocking on your door and refused to leave until you agree to a home trial like Kirby vacuum cleaner salespeople do.
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Would it? Who decided that?

Yes, Kirby sales tactics are bad but who decides what is ok? Where the line is? People selling £10,000 handbags don't knock on my door either but not because they are more honest but because as a sales strategy, it would not work. Their tactics have to be more targeted and subtle but that doesn't mean the product is any less of a rip-off.
 
PerF said:
I've always wondered if its actually a re-branded Vertere cable with a bigger price tag along with "Naim Lumina" on.
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I think so, too -- with the possible addition of a resistor in a box at the end of the cable so that someone's CB amp doesn't get seasick if used in that (zany) application. I use a pair of the cheapest Vertere cables with my 250.2. They work fine and are way easier to wrangle than NAC A5.
 
Mr Pig said:
Would it? Who decided that?

Yes, Kirby sales tactics are bad but who decides what is ok? Where the line is? People selling £10,000 handbags don't knock on my door either but not because they are more honest but because as a sales strategy, it would not work. Their tactics have to be more targeted and subtle but that doesn't mean the product is any less of a rip-off.
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You seem hung up about value, which is a personal judgement. What people choose to spend and what they want to buy is ultimately their choice.

The point I'm trying, but obviously failing, to make is that most big brands (Naim isn't that big, by the way) don't hold a gun to your head and say "buy some". There is no subliminal messaging going on, despite what you think.
 
James said:
The point I'm trying, but obviously failing, to make is that most big brands (Naim isn't that big, by the way) don't hold a gun to your head and say "buy some". There is no subliminal messaging going on, despite what you think.
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Yes, there is. Selling people things they don't need and that aren't good value is an art form. It doesn't matter what the product is, the sales techniques just vary accordingly. My point is that you need to be dishonest to sell a product you know to be poor value. That might mean a car salesman who keeps quiet about known faults on a car he is selling or a £4'000 cable when you know the parts cost you £300. It doesn't make any difference. The Kirby salesman wears you down so you buy the damn hoover to get rid of him. The cable salesman uses flattery, coffee and feigning friendship to persuade you without you even realizing it but both are selling poor value products so one is no better than the other.
 
Judging from a Naim sales person I watched when they demonstrated Focal Sopra loudspeakers, bet they lusted back in DBL days.
I felt sorry for them, they could have demonstrated washing machines with same enthusiasm.
And yes, it sounded terrible.
 
Mr Pig said:
Yes, there is. Selling people things they don't need and that aren't good value is an art form. It doesn't matter what the product is, the sales techniques just vary accordingly. My point is that you need to be dishonest to sell a product you know to be poor value. That might mean a car salesman who keeps quiet about known faults on a car he is selling or a £4'000 cable when you know the parts cost you £300. It doesn't make any difference. The Kirby salesman wears you down so you buy the damn hoover to get rid of him. The cable salesman uses flattery, coffee and feigning friendship to persuade you without you even realizing it but both are selling poor value products so one is no better than the other.
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You must be a lot more susceptible to snake oil if you think that. Being dishonest about known faults is quite a different matter to selling something with large profit margin. It's the reason I prefer to buy new rather than secondhand things. I have no quibble with handing over my hard-earned if I see the value for me, whether it is for a watch, an amplifier, car or Lego set.
 
PerF said:
they could have demonstrated washing machines with same enthusiasm. And yes, it sounded terrible.
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My experience also. At several UK shows I have never seen such a disinterested bunch. However, in one room they were joking around with each other when the sound was absolutely abysmal. I'm surprised it didn't strip the wall paper off the walls...
 
James said:
.. Being dishonest about known faults is quite a different matter to selling something with large profit margin..
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Naim launched Uniti's with OLED screen back in 2009/2010.

Despite the fading display (in NDX, Uniti's, DAC V1 amo.) they kept that part in manufacture for roughly a decade.
The issue/faulth must have been known much earlier.
Even then no customers got a warning.

Later on they offered a display replacement "affordable" as seemingly a "goodwill"
Now after their latest price hike, this is more than doubled, nearly tripled.
 
PerF said:
Naim launched Uniti's with OLED screen back in 2009/2010.

Despite the fading display (in NDX, Uniti's, DAC V1 amo.) they kept that part in manufacture for roughly a decade.
The issue/faulth must have been known much earlier.
Even then no customers got a warning.

Later on they offered a display replacement "affordable" as seemingly a "goodwill"
Now after their latest price hike, this is more than doubled, nearly tripled.
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They would have known this from day 1 as the lifetime of the oled is on the datasheet. If I remember correctly some old green oleds had a lifetime to half brightness of about 10k hours blue and red were even less. Many Naim owners leave their stuff on 24/7 so a screen left on wouldn't take long to dim.
 
Muttley2 said:
Oleds have been around a lot longer than that. Quality and lifespan has improved which is why they are more widely available.
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I know. I thought the reference was being made to modern colour screens, not basic character/numerical displays. Audio manufacturers have only just started used OLED screens like you would find in an iPhone more recently...
 
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