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Best brand for longevity

The company may have a long life but does not mean the spares will be available.

Case in point Bryston will give a 20 year warranty on analog and "only" 5 years on digital bits. They recognise that maintaining a supply of obsolete digital technology for long periods is difficult or costly.

Increasingly my audio / video / music is digital. I no longer manually flip records and cue the arm, or get up to adjust the volume, or insert a DVD.
 
I think there's a major difference in mechanical engineering components and electronics, ie TTs and tonearm vs electronics, not really much to go wrong with a well designed and manufactured turntable or tonearm for the most part, though there's always exceptions. Cartridges do wear out and either need to be rebuilt or replaced (stylus on MM).
Electronics to my mind is a different ball game, lots of little components that can fail so whilst it's great if you know a competent engineer or repair tech I would think it takes a fair bit of skill and knowledge to even diagnose a fault let alone repair it. An example, many years ago I had a Creek 4040 integrated amp, it went up in a puff of smoke, I rang the insurance company and the repair tech came out to my house, he picked up the amp and said " oh that's heavy, never seen one of those before, we mainly replace TV screens that kids have smashed with their Wii controls, I'll take it back to workshop and have a look" next day I get a phone call, " had a look inside your amp, it's buggered, I'll notify the insurance company "
 
I think there's a major difference in mechanical engineering components and electronics, ie TTs and tonearm vs electronics, not really much to go wrong with a well designed and manufactured turntable or tonearm for the most part, though there's always exceptions. Cartridges do wear out and either need to be rebuilt or replaced (stylus on MM).
Electronics to my mind is a different ball game, lots of little components that can fail so whilst it's great if you know a competent engineer or repair tech I would think it takes a fair bit of skill and knowledge to even diagnose a fault let alone repair it. An example, many years ago I had a Creek 4040 integrated amp, it went up in a puff of smoke, I rang the insurance company and the repair tech came out to my house, he picked up the amp and said " oh that's heavy, never seen one of those before, we mainly replace TV screens that kids have smashed with their Wii controls, I'll take it back to workshop and have a look" next day I get a phone call, " had a look inside your amp, it's buggered, I'll notify the insurance company "

There's electronics.... and there's electronics! Your Creek 4040 would be a piece of piss for me to repair for example.
Digital and analogue electronics are completely different animals, to my mind as different as electronics and plumbing are to each other! Many EE's did as employers expected and basically "went back to school" to learn a new trade to go alongside analogue, I choose to specialise in analogue as I simply had no interest in digital whatsoever and there will always be a need for analogue alongside digital.

With analogue in lets say a power amplifier there may be "only" say 8 transistors per channel alongside the associated resistors, capacitors etc BUT any level from a millionth of a volt to tens of Volts at similarly wide ranging currents and frequencies will be present at all points of the circuit and one can easily access those points and connect up test gear, analyse what's going on etc.

With digital there is only on and off, 1's and 0's, often no (or very few) resistors and capacitors etc but a million transistors all on an IC the size of your thumbnail and only the actual inputs and outputs etc accessible...

Unless you are say the Sony Corporation and making the IC's alongside £100,000 a go digital analyser specifically to diagnose that IC in the factory then the chances are that the best you can do is get to a point where you can say that on balance of probabilities the fault lies with IC 123... you can only really diagnose by replacement, maybe costing £30 and hard to get, and go through the incredibly fiddly process of replacing the part using SMD re-work gear costing a fortune and all under magnifying lenses etc. Often you could be no more than say 70% sure that the fault was indeed with this IC! If it then still doesn't work I can't not charge the customer say £100 for having changed an IC that had nothing wrong with it!

This is the nub of why so many high tech digital items are destined for the skip....

I'm already having to turn away maybe 1 in 3 ish of repairs because when I google the item and see that it is all SMD and under microprocessor control it is clear that the repair will be a right PITA, at least 2-3 times as expensive as fixing a trad made unit and I can't guarantee that it can in fact be repaired... but would have to charge for attempting it... Hence I'll turn that job away and take on the Sugden A21SE or the Quad 306 etc that I've also had an enquiry about fixing... That's how it's increasingly going... and the vast majority of repairers will be doing the same as me;)

With such equipment as the high tech item described the only practical repair is to obtain a complete new main board from the manufacturer and fit it... which they often refuse to sell you and it it is probably only available for 5 years after the item ceases production anyway... or the new board costs way more than a working S/H unit anyway rendering it an uneconomical repair.

I guess there's a parallel with modern cars... Once upon a time a shit hot independent OMB/SME automotive engineer could take on anything from a Mini to a Ferrari safe in the knowledge that the basic principles are all the same and they have 35+ plus years of experience and knowledge to draw on in repairing it.
Today unless you have the £30K BMW main dealer only diagnostic computer and access to all the digital management codes etc etc then it doesn't matter how many cars you've fixed before... you're stymied.
 
I think there's a major difference in mechanical engineering components and electronics, ie TTs and tonearm vs electronics, not really much to go wrong with a well designed and manufactured turntable or tonearm for the most part, though there's always exceptions. Cartridges do wear out and either need to be rebuilt or replaced (stylus on MM).
Electronics to my mind is a different ball game, lots of little components that can fail so whilst it's great if you know a competent engineer or repair tech I would think it takes a fair bit of skill and knowledge to even diagnose a fault let alone repair it. An example, many years ago I had a Creek 4040 integrated amp, it went up in a puff of smoke, I rang the insurance company and the repair tech came out to my house, he picked up the amp and said " oh that's heavy, never seen one of those before, we mainly replace TV screens that kids have smashed with their Wii controls, I'll take it back to workshop and have a look" next day I get a phone call, " had a look inside your amp, it's buggered, I'll notify the insurance company "
I think bias is a sticky subject where the blackbird is concerned.

i feel like there is some secret society with its own language, to which I do not have the key!
 
Bryston (PMC in UK) or Rega & Michell

Bryston and PMC, but only up to a point. PMC have tried to wriggle out of the 20 year warranty on the newer amps, claiming certain faults were 'digital' when they were in fact nothing of the kind. Bryston in Canada would have honoured the warranty without quibbles. There are other examples of differences between how Bryston deals with repairs in North America and PMC with Bryston repairs in the UK. Bryston's newer amps also do not have quite the track record of the older amps like your (and my) B60R.

Agree about Rega, but only for the turntables and speakers.

The king of long-term reliability and reparability in the UK, at least for the older UK-made amps, has to be Quad.
 
PMC have tried to wriggle out of the 20 year warranty on the newer amps, claiming certain faults were 'digital' when they were in fact nothing of the kind. Bryston in Canada would have honoured the warranty without quibbles
This is useful to know even if it is slightly off topic (honouring warranty vs longevity)
Bryston's newer amps also do not have quite the track record of the older amps like your (and my) B60R
I have 3 pieces of Bryston equipment.
  • My 22 (ish) year old 9BST has been extremely troublesome. Every single one of the 5 channels has blown more than once until PMC agreed with Bryston Canada to get some of the components upgraded to SST spec, all under warranty. Superb service including PMC director delivering the amp to my home after the upgrade.
  • My 18(ish) year old 4BSST has been trouble-free
  • My 10(ish) year old SP3 processor has been trouble-free (though I might need to reflash the latest firmware as 1 or 2 functions are inconsistent since)
So on a sample of 1 user the more recent kit appears more reliable. Actually since 2 days ago I have a fourth Bryston piece of kit - a 4B3 to replace the 4BSST.
 
Bryston and PMC, but only up to a point. PMC have tried to wriggle out of the 20 year warranty on the newer amps, claiming certain faults were 'digital' when they were in fact nothing of the kind. Bryston in Canada would have honoured the warranty without quibbles. There are other examples of differences between how Bryston deals with repairs in North America and PMC with Bryston repairs in the UK. Bryston's newer amps also do not have quite the track record of the older amps like your (and my) B60R.

Agree about Rega, but only for the turntables and speakers.

The king of long-term reliability and reparability in the UK, at least for the older UK-made amps, has to be Quad.

True, my experience with Bryston was with two seperate B60Rs, one in warranty and one just out of warranty. Both excellent service, even out of th warranty, superb customer focus and VERY reasonable costs, even some bits FOC.
 
Linn. You could’ve bought one of their original network music players and kept upgrading it (and getting the old board back in a cheap case) for many years. Not many electronic products have had such a long life. Same with the turntable. Indefinitely upgradeable, (until they actually get it right.)
 
Possibly what TYPE of equipment needs to come into this, rather than brand. Within that, brands could then be compared I guess.

eg well engineered but simple TT's usually go on for 50+ years with nothing more than drop of oil and a new belt or idler wheel. This is nothing out of the ordinary for such TT's.

Some speakers which have neither foam surrounds on woofers nor ferrofluid in tweeters and have no electrolytics in the crossover seem to to go on for similar years without trouble (some of these do get issues with hardening of roll surround or decaying cabinets of course.. and local heat, humidity and direct sunlight make a huge difference here!)

If your CD player has lasted 10 years of regular use so far then you've done well. (yes, yes someone will have a 1987 machine that's never been repaired... allegedly...)

There are loads of 50's and 60's valve amps still in everyday use but they are Trigger's broom... so long as the output transformers are pukka, that's the main thing! Everything else can potentially be replaced and it's still a Stereo 20/whatever.

As far as general analogue/trad electronics goes then some of the Japanese kit from say 1968 to '78 takes some beating in terms of so much of it was still working, without even seeing a squirt of contact cleaner or ever having the lid removed, even into the 2000's. When they eventually do go wrong do they can be a PITA due to specialised parts, unobtainium Japanese semiconductors, custom made for that unit only selector switches etc but in some cases a work around can be made. In a good number of cases just a good clean of all contacts and sorting of any dry joints plus a general look over will have them functioning great again and a full re-cap and replacement of worn parts/out of tolerance parts etc have them as good as new. Caveat emptor that a genuinely unobtainable IC could fail at any time in a vintage Japanese item that you paid £700 for and then another £400 to have it fully sorted and recapped etc..... 40 year old IC's are as 40 year old IC's will be... may go on for another 40 years or may last 2 months after the rebuild.. a brand new IC may last 2 months or 50 years depending on luck of the draw/Fri afternoon/Mon morning etc but at least you can probably get a replacement if it's not too specialised!
 
Linn
1986 Sondek, bought used in 1988, Ittock. Serviced every few years for new carts, cirkus to Kore.
Wakonda, demo 2005
LK 85s with aktiv cards, new 2005
Aktiv Katans, new 2005
Lingo 2, new 2005
Linto, used 2006
REL B3, new 2009
No issues, despite moving it all across the USA several times.
Marvelous performance.
Better than ever.
 
The way things are getting so silly with BGA's, FPGA's, SMD, microprocessor to control an electronic vol control and the LCD screen, amps with built in DACs etc I can see me having to advertise my services as "Repairer of VINTAGE amplifiers" before long!:rolleyes:
That role is already well-established in the USA, with many repairers only working on electronics from pre-1990. It's remarkably difficult to find someone locally to repair a CD player or DAC. In the Denver area, I know of at least seven 'vintage' repair shops. It's advantageous around here, to own vintage stuff!
 
I’ve had Marantz and Rotel equipment that seems to go on forever. Still using a mid eighties cassette deck and a Rotel 965BX. Both very solidly built.
 


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