Cost of Living Up 5% (or actually a lot more? )

[ks.234]

Been there done that.

Not at all sure what it is you’re so angry about that you have to get so patronising?

If you looked at the context you will see that the graph demonstrates a general decline in wage growth since 2008 which suggests that we do not live in a high wage economy which was the context of the post.

 

[ks.234]

As I posted above Re. the USA, 'high wages' mean nothing out of context.

Much like your graph showing higher wages over CPI for 10 years out of 17 maybe ?

And? Again, what’s your point?

 

[stevec67]

Not long ago Boris Johnson said that the UK could become a high wage economy, so it can’t be now
https://www.wbs.ac.uk/news/can-the-uk-become-a-high-wage-high-skill-economy/

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ou...h-wage-economy-is-built-on-shaky-foundations/

Regardless, we might have a high wage economy like you say, do you have any evidence?

Define a high wage economy for a start. Any economy can become high - er wage, so how do you measure it? At what point do we "arrive" at a high wage economy? Do we ever? Boris's soundbites about high wage, high skill, build back better are just conference puff for the faithful, as we all know.
A high wage economy is a relative term, in the real world. Ours is higher than many. It could always be higher. What I do see is massive consumption. Yes, I know a good deal of that is driven by debt, but it can't ALL be. Not everybody is living on credit that they can't afford to service. Consumption is driven, at least in part and I would say principally, by disposable income.

 

[misterdog]

I'm neither angry or patronising.

Your graph shows higher wage growth (blue line) than cost of living (red line ) for 10 years out of 16.

Maybe if you add up all the APR change for each of those 16 years you can present a different picture - I don't know.

 

[ks.234]

Define a high wage economy for a start. Any economy can become high - er wage, so how do you measure it? At what point do we "arrive" at a high wage economy? Do we ever? Boris's soundbites about high wage, high skill, build back better are just conference puff for the faithful, as we all know.
A high wage economy is a relative term, in the real world. Ours is higher than many. It could always be higher. What I do see is massive consumption. Yes, I know a good deal of that is driven by debt, but it can't ALL be. Not everybody is living on credit that they can't afford to service. Consumption is driven, at least in part and I would say principally, by disposable income.

It was you that brought up the whole high wage thing, not me.

I didn’t say ALL consumption was driven by debt

 

[ks.234]

I'm neither angry or patronising.

Your graph shows higher wage growth (blue line) than cost of living (red line ) for 10 years out of 16.

Maybe if you add up all the APR change for each of those 16 years you can present a different picture - I don't know.

You’re just stating the obvious. Yes, the graph does indeed show higher wage growth before 2008. And? What point are you trying to make with that information?

 

[stevec67]

Pay people more.

Problem solved.

It was you that brought up the whole high wage thing, not me.

No, not really. "Pay people more" you said.

 

[ks.234]

No, not really. "Pay people more" you said.

Yes. To which you said that we now live in a high wage economy. Evidence for which is so far absent. In the meantime nurses, teachers and a host of other workers have seen a real term wage decrease since 2008

 

[stevec67]

Yes. To which you said that we now live in a high wage economy. Evidence for which is so far absent. In the meantime nurses, teachers and a host of other workers have seen a real term wage decrease since 2008

In response to your assertion that we live in a low wage economy. To which I replied "tell that to a Pole" . Evidence for which is abundant.

 

[misterdog]

Yes, the graph does indeed show higher wage growth before 2008. And? What point are you trying to make with that information?

Also between 2014/2017.
So for 10 years out of 16 WTF ?
You posted it.


What point were you making - I don't know.

 

[ks.234]

Also between 2014/2017.
So for 10 years out of 16 WTF ?
You posted it.


What point were you making - I don't know.

I’m not making a point, I’m asking you a question. If you can’t answer it that’s fine

 

[ks.234]

In response to your assertion that we live in a low wage economy. To which I replied "tell that to a Pole" . Evidence for which is abundant.

No. You stated that we live in a high wage economy, which I questioned with evidence that suggested something different. If you have no evidence to support your statement that’s fine

 

[misterdog]

I’m not making a point

Maybe you should have mentioned this earlier.

 

[stevec67]

No. You stated that we live in a high wage economy, which I questioned with evidence that suggested something different. If you have no evidence to support your statement that’s fine

Look up wages in E Europe. Compare that to UK average. Look at agricultural automation rates in the two zones. Look at, pre Brexit, how many low skilled jobs were being carried out in E Eur with components from the UK and the finished product shipped back to the UK. Pickled onions, in my direct experience, for one example. High wage economy, as I said upthread, is relative.

 

[Darren L]

I believe people generally now have more disposable income than they did 20 years ago

Perhaps that's true for a portion of the well heeled in our society but we didn't have food banks 20 years ago.
I think the divide between the haves and have nots is getting bigger year on year.

 

[stevec67]

Perhaps that's true for a portion of the well heeled in our society but we didn't have food banks 20 years ago.
I think the divide between the haves and have nots is getting bigger year on year.

You are absolutely right with the second sentence. said

However when I said "people generally" I wasn't talking about the well heeled, I was talking about mr/ms median income. I still think that's the case.

 

[davidsrsb]

Most middle class households up to the 70s were single wage and still ran one car

 

[al2002]

Not sure where this document got its wage figures from, but the median personal income in the US is around $ 42 k per annum or $ 35OO per month.

[Edit: I see that the median *household* income is around $67 k per annum, or roughly 5600 per month]

I’d estimate typical out of pocket medical expenses to be well over $500 per person, per annum, closer to triple that figure.

For some segments of the middle class (part time workers, or full timers working as self employed ‘contractors’) the cost of major medical care can be astronomic. Things are now better with Obamacare, but not as good as they ought to be, thanks to opposition from Republicans. Yet the white working class electorate continues to vote strongly in favour of the Republican Party because of cultural issues, contrary to its own economic self interest.

Don’t overlook educational costs for families. Private school or University can be 30,000 - 80,000 per annum before financial aid.

So that 3500 per month or even 5600 per month doesn’t go very far due to the absence of a social safety net.

Though they need to pay $ 5000 minimum for each person in annual healthcare costs.
Source their own pension, etc, etc, etc,.

But look at how high the wages are

 

[ks.234]

Maybe you should have mentioned this earlier.

It is you who keeps pointing out that the economy was running better before 2008, all I have done is ask what point you are trying to make from that astounding observation? But you don’t seem able

 

[ks.234]

Look up wages in E Europe. Compare that to UK average. Look at agricultural automation rates in the two zones. Look at, pre Brexit, how many low skilled jobs were being carried out in E Eur with components from the UK and the finished product shipped back to the UK. Pickled onions, in my direct experience, for one example. High wage economy, as I said upthread, is relative.

You said “we” have a high wage economy. All the evidence; the fact that it is acknowledged that a high wage economy is still an aspiration in this country, a decade of real terms pay cuts, increase reliance on food banks, increased levels of poverty, increasing inequality, my personal observations of people struggling and reading newspaper headlines, suggests we are not in a high wage economy.

Your experience might be different, you might see high wages in your household and in those around you, but there is no evidence that such an observation can be extrapolated to the wider economy. The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of hardship going on out there and that hardship is going to be increased further by higher prices and higher taxation.

That hardship which is felt by millions is a result of economic mismanagement.

If you think we live in some sort of high wage El Dorado, why do we have food banks?