advertisement


Drawn to a sugden

Neil P

Neil P

pfm Member
As per various threads of the last few months I'm trying to find an amp that matches well with my high sensitivity speakers (96db). I noticed a Sugden integrated in the classifieds this wknd but couldn't buy it as I need to sell some kit first.

Could the people with sugden experience enlighten me on the sound? Pros & Cons?

Music wise I listen to anything (but 75% neil young/pink floyd type music), at moderate levels in a 6x4m room.
 
The Sugden A21 is one of the best amps I’ve ever heard irrespective of price. It’s hard to describe because it just gets out of the way. Having heard it with many different speakers I’ve never failed to love it and it’ll certainly work with 96dB speakers. I’ve heard some of the bigger ones and whilst good they haven’t captured things in the way the basic one does. The class A monos they do are also very good, but quite expensive. As ever, you need to listen yourself or accept you’re taking a gamble as you may hear things differently.
 
pocketkitchen said:
The Sugden A21 is one of the best amps I’ve ever heard irrespective of price. It’s hard to describe because it just gets out of the way. Having heard it with many different speakers I’ve never failed to love it and it’ll certainly work with 96dB speakers. I’ve heard some of the bigger ones and whilst good they haven’t captured things in the way the basic one does. The class A monos they do are also very good, but quite expensive. As ever, you need to listen yourself or accept you’re taking a gamble as you may hear things differently.
Click to expand...

Thankyou. I'd be happy to take a gamble with something bought on here, knowing I could sell on if needed. I'm waiting to compare Nap200 (newly serviced) to Tron Monoblocks... but would also consider a sugden as it would reduce the box count.
 
In terms of new amps the A21 and Exposure 3510 seem to be the main choices for the money. I ran an A21 about 20 odd years ago, now I have the masterclass pre power after naim and avondale along the way. An A21 will be plenty loud in your room, even with normal speakers.

 
The Sugden I've heard were all excellent in many ways, tonality, timbre and so on.
I didn't really like cabinet got very warm to the point of don't touch, fingers burnt (kids)
I thought those amps lacked the last word in pace and rhythm, coming from a Naim or Rega based setup.

If budget is low there's the original A21, or temporary try a Rega IO amp, plenty enough power for 96DB speakers.
 
Silly question ... my Nap200 is 70w into 8ohm and I can hardly get more than two notches up on the volume dial with my speakers. Is there a way to predict the behaviour of a sugden or a rega based on their amplifier "class" or is it not that simple?
 
Neil P said:
As per various threads of the last few months I'm trying to find an amp that matches well with my high sensitivity speakers (96db). I noticed a Sugden integrated in the classifieds this wknd but couldn't buy it as I need to sell some kit first.

Could the people with sugden experience enlighten me on the sound? Pros & Cons?

Music wise I listen to anything (but 75% neil young/pink floyd type music), at moderate levels in a 6x4m room.
Click to expand...

Also a big fan of the A21a - back in 1992 or so I went to a dealer and I auditioned one - blind level matched - and it came out on top. It always won the Blind level matched sessions at Hi-Fi Choice magazine back then as well. Beating out SS amps that measured better ahem.

But I was young and dumb and decided to trust Stereophile and other magazines and bought an Arcam Delta 290 integrated instead - oops.

The Sugden was the one that got away.

I eventually bought a Sugden A48B and no it's not as good but it did have a nice stereotypical tube sound. Indeed, if you like a little bit more of an ambiance-filled presentation a little warmer and thicker (a bit veiled) these are MUCH less expensive on the used market - like 1/5th the price. Still, it's worth a try if you see one come up. The A48B is non frequency limited class A/B amplifier running 65ish watts per channel.

Comparable sounding amps to the Sugden A21a will probably come from tube amplifiers - I wound up taking my Audio Note OTO Phono SE over the Sugden - it is a 10 watt Class A Single Ended Pentode using EL84s - it's been selling for 25 years so second-hand ones are available. They also made a Push Pull version and versions with and without phono. The Phono is all-tube phono and very good but if you don't need it the Line versions will be cheaper.

Another good one that I would put against the Sugden is the Line Magnetic 211IA tube amp - it is around $1600 USD new EL34 - normally not a big fan of PP tube amps but this one I quite liked and much better than my Audio Space Mini-2 SE which also used the same EL34s.
 
Neil P said:
Silly question ... my Nap200 is 70w into 8ohm and I can hardly get more than two notches up on the volume dial with my speakers. Is there a way to predict the behaviour of a sugden or a rega based on their amplifier "class" or is it not that simple?
Click to expand...

In the case of Naim at least, that's more due to the input sensitivity of the pre-amps (AIUI).
 
Neil P said:
Silly question ... my Nap200 is 70w into 8ohm and I can hardly get more than two notches up on the volume dial with my speakers. Is there a way to predict the behaviour of a sugden or a rega based on their amplifier "class" or is it not that simple?
Click to expand...

I think that is an impossible question to answer to be fair unless you try one of the amps on your own speakers.

With regards to Sugden specifically, I have owned a number of amps over the years (ranging from budget to £10k +) and the Sugden A21a Signature I have at the moment is absolutely glorious. With the right speakers I would say that it is very, very difficult to beat. Certainly not heard another amp sub-£5K that offer the same magic as the A21a. Sugden claim this amp is possibly the only amp you will ever need and I would not disagree.

Quite a good if at times rambling overview:

 
Don’t know if Sugden have sorted it yet, but Stereophile’s review of the previous model A21a showed the optional phono stage to be woefully badly designed. The overload margin was just a few dB and once clipped it latched meaning it stays clipped for a while even once the level has dropped. They recommended using a separate phono stage with the A21a. Hopefully they’ve come up with a new better design.

I had the A21ap - the power amp version of the A21a and I really enjoyed it.
 
Out of interest what speakers are you using?

Incidentally, another amp to try which is a bargain - especially on the SH market - is the Unison Research Simply Italy.
 
Nagraboy said:
Don’t know if Sugden have sorted it yet, but Stereophile’s review of the previous model A21a showed the optional phono stage to be woefully badly designed. The overload margin was just a few dB and once clipped it latched meaning it stays clipped for a while even once the level has dropped. They recommended using a separate phono stage with the A21a. Hopefully they’ve come up with a new better design.

I had the A21ap - the power amp version of the A21a and I really enjoyed it.
Click to expand...

Not sure of the technical/design aspects of the phono stage but the one in the latest A21a is absolute superb. I have tried a couple of £500 stages and they are certainly no better.
 
Nagraboy said:
Don’t know if Sugden have sorted it yet, but Stereophile’s review of the previous model A21a showed the optional phono stage to be woefully badly designed. The overload margin was just a few dB and once clipped it latched meaning it stays clipped for a while even once the level has dropped. They recommended using a separate phono stage with the A21a. Hopefully they’ve come up with a new better design.

I had the A21ap - the power amp version of the A21a and I really enjoyed it.
Click to expand...

Yeah the onboard phonostage was nothing to write home about though okay with a MM, though the amp itself is an absolute cracker
 
Neil P said:
I'm waiting to compare Nap200 (newly serviced) to Tron Monoblocks... but would also consider a sugden as it would reduce the box count.
Click to expand...

Strange to me that you're comparing Naim with (valved?) Tron and Sugden. Wouldn't have thought the Na 200 would be anywhere in the same ball-park sonically (i.e. apart from p.r.a.t. :))

When (I thought that) my valve mono had gone down, I resarched all class A opportunities and kept coming back to (admittedly bigger power) Sugden, simply by force of opinion research. I have big ESLs which complicated the choice a bit. Valves or class A; you're not exactly economising on electricity (unlike Naim) but there's no way I'd revert to Naim (after 552/135s)
 
Neil P said:
As per various threads of the last few months I'm trying to find an amp that matches well with my high sensitivity speakers (96db). I noticed a Sugden integrated in the classifieds this wknd but couldn't buy it as I need to sell some kit first.

Could the people with sugden experience enlighten me on the sound? Pros & Cons?

Music wise I listen to anything (but 75% neil young/pink floyd type music), at moderate levels in a 6x4m room.
Click to expand...
Hi Neil, which A21 are you looking at talking about? There are a number of versions from the original wooden sleeved (A21) to the A21a produced in the 1990s until 2007 and then the new version currently in production?
 
Has anyone compared the A21 (versions) to First Watt amps?

Only Sugden I heard was a big Masterclass show demo - really lovely - but have always been intrigued by the A21 versions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top