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Source / Speaker balance

Tim Purley

Tim Purley

Hear today
For the last twenty years, I've treasured my Royd Doublet speakers for their accurate and uncoloured reproduction. Joe Ackroyd undoubtedly knew what he was doing - and how to do it. The issue for me is that, whilst I've been faithful to the Doublets, I've progressively improved the system that feeds them. So much so that I now have an Innuos Zen Mini with independent power supply amplified by a Teddy Pardo PR1 / MB100s combination providing the music. I have a nagging feeling I should at least think about a trial separation, if not a divorce, from the Doublets if my system is going to be properly balanced and make the most of the source. Any views on whether I should and, if so, what speakers I should audition for a garage sized listening room? Music tastes are pretty diverse - everything from classical via folk, blues and country to rock. Just not a heavy metal man! Thanks!
 
Budget would help folk suggest things to consider. No harm borrowing a few pairs from a dealer if you have a friendly one nearby.

I’d have a look at models from ProAc, Kudos and Neat for a start.
 
Amber Audio said:
Budget would help folk suggest things to consider. No harm borrowing a few pairs from a dealer if you have a friendly one nearby.

I’d have a look at models from ProAc, Kudos and Neat for a start.
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Thanks for that. Whilst I don't want to say that money is no object, I would be prepared to spend what was needed to optimise / balance the system. The corollary is that I wouldn't want to end up with speakers that the rest of the system wasn't up to! I seem to recall reading guidance in the past that the spend on speakers should ideally be a certain percentage of total system cost. Don't know if that still holds and, if so, what figures are being bandied around now. Any ideas?
 
Tim Purley said:
Thanks for that. Whilst I don't want to say that money is no object, I would be prepared to spend what was needed to optimise / balance the system. The corollary is that I wouldn't want to end up with speakers that the rest of the system wasn't up to! I seem to recall reading guidance in the past that the spend on speakers should ideally be a certain percentage of total system cost. Don't know if that still holds and, if so, what figures are being bandied around now. Any ideas?
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Used to be spend loads on the speakers, then an even split 1/3 each on TT/Amp/Spkrs then it was spend most on the TT so summat like 50/30/20.

Digital has disrupted things, a basic Raspberry Pi + DAC Hat under a £ton sounds way way better than you’d ever
expect, so you could go 10/40/50 and get a really nice sounding system. Nowadays there aren’t any set rules that I’ve read in the mags.

Personally I’m about an even split Digital/TT/Amp/Speakers.

With your setup I’ll pull a figure out of thin air and say £5k. Ex dem/used you’ll get a lot more for your money, or be able to get the same speaker for a lot less.
 
Amber Audio said:
Used to be spend loads on the speakers, then an even split 1/3 each on TT/Amp/Spkrs then it was spend most on the TT so summat like 50/30/20.

Digital has disrupted things, a basic Raspberry Pi + DAC Hat under a £ton sounds way way better than you’d ever
expect, so you could go 10/40/50 and get a really nice sounding system. Nowadays there aren’t any set rules that I’ve read in the mags.

Personally I’m about an even split Digital/TT/Amp/Speakers.

With your setup I’ll pull a figure out of thin air and say £5k. Ex dem/used you’ll get a lot more for your money, or be able to get the same speaker for a lot less.
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Thanks again - that's a really helpful summary. I'd certainly need / expect to hear a marked improvement at that spend, as the Doublets (which still deliver a great sound) originally cost me £400 and now fetch about half that when (or, more realistically, if) they turn up on ebay! Will explore more - and still open to suggestions from others about speakers to audition.
 
Maybe have a listen to some good standmounters too. I'm thinking specifically of the Amphion Argon 3s, and the Fyne Audio F1-5. The Fynes' looks aren't for everyone, but for me they set a benchmark for sheer class, at the price (about £3k). I think they're cute, but accept not everybody shares that view.
 
It depnds whether you want to listen to music or have a hobby of continuously dicking around with kit. The speakers are overwhelmingly the most important component, so you need to get that choice right and rationally shoiuld put most money into them.
You could go down the active speaker route, and this is IMHO the one most likely to get you to a solution, as you can get a really good pair of ATCs/genelcs/dutch and Dutch/whatever suits you + a digital front end of abitrary price and sell the rest.
But the problem is -do you want a solution or a hobby? If the latter then get passive speakers.
Either way listen to lots of different ones, ideally in your own room or one very like it.
 
adamdea said:
It depnds whether you want to listen to music or have a hobby of continuously dicking around with kit. The speakers are overwhelmingly the most important component, so you need to get that choice right and rationally shoiuld put most money into them.
You could go down the active speaker route, and this is IMHO the one most likely to get you to a solution, as you can get a really good pair of ATCs/genelcs/dutch and Dutch/whatever suits you + a digital front end of abitrary price and sell the rest.
But the problem is -do you want a solution or a hobby? If the latter then get passive speakers.
Either way listen to lots of different ones, ideally in your own room or one very like it.
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For me, active was unfortunately not the solution and I am far happier and listen to more music since having passive systems again.
 
adamdea said:
It depnds whether you want to listen to music or have a hobby of continuously dicking around with kit. The speakers are overwhelmingly the most important component, so you need to get that choice right and rationally shoiuld put most money into them.
You could go down the active speaker route, and this is IMHO the one most likely to get you to a solution, as you can get a really good pair of ATCs/genelcs/dutch and Dutch/whatever suits you + a digital front end of abitrary price and sell the rest.
But the problem is -do you want a solution or a hobby? If the latter then get passive speakers.
Either way listen to lots of different ones, ideally in your own room or one very like it.
Click to expand...
Kit is a means to an end. The end is getting lost in the music coming out of the kit. That's been happening regularly since Teddy Pardo kit assumed centre stage in my system. Just want to maximise the times when I get a shiver up my spine and reckoned a final speaker upgrade might do that. No desire to fiddle around beyond that (and so not really inclined to experiment with active systems).
 
You will want to make sure your amplifier can drive your speakers at the volume level you require.
What are the specs and what volume do you generally listen at in decibels?
 
Dont think amplifier capability is an issue. Whilst the MB100s are notionally rated at 100w, reviews suggest they are suitable for use with loudspeakers "of any load short of the largest and most extreme". As I mentioned earlier, I'm not a heavy metal man - The Who, Queen, U2 etc are probably as loud as I want to go - and I want to enjoy the music, rather than the volume!
 
Audition something widely known/reviewed, post your findings - liked this aspect / didn’t like that aspect - recessed mids, wooly bass, good soundstage etc. That’ll help folk suggest alternatives, start with ProAc Tablette for example.
 
I seem to be stuck in KEF wonderland at the moment with KEF References and LS50's so would probably go that way either new or used. They like good quality SS with decent current and your MBL's would fit well.

I heard some Proac's at one of the dealer's and although pleasant not really my cup of tea. It sounded a bit thin. Others love them.
 
Tim Purley said:
Dont think amplifier capability is an issue. Whilst the MB100s are notionally rated at 100w, reviews suggest they are suitable for use with loudspeakers "of any load short of the largest and most extreme". As I mentioned earlier, I'm not a heavy metal man - The Who, Queen, U2 etc are probably as loud as I want to go - and I want to enjoy the music, rather than the volume!
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Some speakers are a bugger to drive & your watts will be eaten up pretty quickly.
Certainly if they drop below 4 ohms and your listening position is a distance from the speakers.
If you listen at lower volume levels I would suggest a sensitive speaker with a decent cone size of 8 inch +.
How big is the garage sized room?
 
Curtis said:
Some speakers are a bugger to drive & your watts will be eaten up pretty quickly.
Certainly if they drop below 4 ohms and your listening position is a distance from the speakers.
If you listen at lower volume levels I would suggest a sensitive speaker with a decent cone size of 8 inch +.
How big is the garage sized room?
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It's about 6m x 3.5m. Listening space has to be across, rather than along, the room - putting the listening position just over 2 metres from the speakers.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Maybe have a listen to some good standmounters too. I'm thinking specifically of the Amphion Argon 3s, and the Fyne Audio F1-5. The Fynes' looks aren't for everyone, but for me they set a benchmark for sheer class, at the price (about £3k). I think they're cute, but accept not everybody shares that view.
Click to expand...

The Fynes look like Minions!
 
Tim Purley said:
It's about 6m x 3.5m. Listening space has to be across, rather than along, the room - putting the listening position just over 2 metres from the speakers.
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Should be fine then.
Some of the smaller port loaded standmounts are surprisingly greedy though and don’t wake up until the volume is turned up.
It’s interesting that you find the royds accurate & uncoloured.
Not adjectives I would use.
Nice sounding speakers though.
 
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