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Coronavirus - the new strain XXII

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I’m working on whether I would like to see this kind of measure in the UK and I would.

Why?

I think with delta the move would probably have been wrong. However with omicron things may have changed -- it may just be that there is no better thing to do in the omicron universe -- no-one can say at the moment.
 
I’m working on whether I would like to see this kind of measure in the UK and I would.
There was a huge protest in Kehl town square last weekend (yes Germans rebelling against the system, maybe 2000 of them) . I'm.not sure it's going in the right direction for the public mood.
 
Proper leadership. Sound decision.

Germany puts major restrictions on unvaccinated

Source: BBC

I stand against authoritarianism. I’d prefer to leave venues etc up to their owners/employers to define their own parameters and let market forces and their own employees react. Similarly if the health system is under stress then prioritise those who are vaccinated over those who have refused. If there is one bed and a decision needs to be made between say me (tripple-jabbed, FFP2 mask wearer) and some anti-science conspiracy theorist prick like Piers Corbyn then I’ll take that bed thanks. Darwin Awards and all that.
 
I stand against authoritarianism. I’d prefer to leave venues etc up to their owners/employers to define their own parameters and let market forces and their own employees react. Similarly if the health system is under stress then prioritise those who are vaccinated over those who have refused. If there is one bed and a decision needs to be made between say me (tripple-jabbed, FFP2 mask wearer) and some anti-science conspiracy theorist prick like Piers Corbyn then I’ll take that bed thanks. Darwin Awards and all that.
Yes, so do I.
 
I wonder what their evidence base is. The risks are pretty clear: widespread sense of persecution leading to further distrust, division, vax-refusal; discrimination against already marginalised groups; over-policing of already over-policed groups; normalisation of health-based state surveillance and restrictions; hardening of anti-vax sentiment long term…

Desperate times and all, and if there’s evidence to suggest it will actually work, and isn’t just a gesture to communicate strong leadership, I hope they’ll share it.
 
I wonder what their evidence base is. The risks are pretty clear: widespread sense of persecution leading to further distrust, division, vax-refusal; discrimination against already marginalised groups; over-policing of already over-policed groups; normalisation of health-based state surveillance and restrictions; hardening of anti-vax sentiment long term…

Desperate times and all, and if there’s evidence to suggest it will actually work, and isn’t just a gesture to communicate strong leadership, I hope they’ll share it.

I agree that vaccine mandates are a mistake - they will only harden the opposition.

I would start charging the unvaccinated extra for their health insurance, or make them pay some nominal sum to the NHS if they end up hospitalized - like 100 quid a night. There's probably a pretty strong case to stop paying unemployment, long term disability costs etc to folks who end up off sick for weeks or months and are unvaccinated.

Many US employers who self-insure for healthcare are charging unvaccinated folks (without a genuine medical waiver) extra. Seems fair enough to me, since my three shots cost a total of about $150, but a hospital visit will cost anywhere from $5000 to $500,000 depending on how long you're in.

Personal responsibility - it's what the right wing is constantly preaching - time they walked the walk.
 
As I was saying yesterday, it's looking increasingly the case that prior infection does not hold much protection from Omicron - this will scuttle the 'let it rip in kids' strategy that's been in operation over the past months.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...-covid-reinfections-say-south-african-experts
Seems like quick work.

3x current rate of reinfection sounds bad, would be bad - but is it the same as saying that prior infection offers “not much” protection? I don’t actually know what the current rate is but it might be low.
 
The after effects of yesterday's booster (moderna) don't seem too bad (touch wood). I was concerned because shot #2 laid me out for nearly a week, but so far the sore arm is wearing off and I feel rather tired, but not particularly sick.
Hopefully I don't regret this premature celebration tomorrow.
 
I agree that vaccine mandates are a mistake - they will only harden the opposition.

I would start charging the unvaccinated extra for their health insurance, or make them pay some nominal sum to the NHS if they end up hospitalized - like 100 quid a night. There's probably a pretty strong case to stop paying unemployment, long term disability costs etc to folks who end up off sick for weeks or months and are unvaccinated.

Trouble is where do you draw the line? Smokers? Obesity? Alcohol abusers? It's not an easy argument. I'm not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations and as much as the unvaccinated piss me off I don't think making them get vaccinated would win any hearts and minds. We need other incentives and better education/explanation... oh and a government that doesn't tell lies all the time and live by a different set of rules to the rest of us!
 
I agree that vaccine mandates are a mistake - they will only harden the opposition.

I would start charging the unvaccinated extra for their health insurance, or make them pay some nominal sum to the NHS if they end up hospitalized - like 100 quid a night. There's probably a pretty strong case to stop paying unemployment, long term disability costs etc to folks who end up off sick for weeks or months and are unvaccinated.

Many US employers who self-insure for healthcare are charging unvaccinated folks (without a genuine medical waiver) extra. Seems fair enough to me, since my three shots cost a total of about $150, but a hospital visit will cost anywhere from $5000 to $500,000 depending on how long you're in.

Personal responsibility - it's what the right wing is constantly preaching - time they walked the walk.
This looks fine if unvaxxed are all right wing loons. Here they’re more likely simply to be poor and non-white. It would be straightforwardly punitive and discriminatory - and again, how effective is it likely to be?
 
What about the 140 million Americans who have gotten Covid, recovered, and have natural immunity? I see no reason why they should be forced to get a vaccine.
 
What about the 140 million Americans who have gotten Covid, recovered, and have natural immunity? I see no reason why they should be forced to get a vaccine.
Initial reports suggest that natural immunity to other Covid strains doesn’t do much to prevent you catching Omicron. We can’t be sure yet but it’s something to consider.
 
John,

Maybe people who got COVID and survived should get infected again for a natural immunity booster. No wait, that would be moronic.

Joe
 
Initial reports suggest that natural immunity to other Covid strains doesn’t do much to prevent you catching Omicron. We can’t be sure yet but it’s something to consider.
Same could be said for the vaccine.
 
Same could be said for the vaccine.
Apparently not necessarily. Something to do with T cells….it’s possible existing vaccines could still protect you more from serious illness. But I’m far from knowledgeable on this! Also loads of research and analysis is needed.
 
No one should be forced to get vaccinated. Especially not right-wingers in American red states! Let their anti-science, conspiracy theories and evangelical preachers do their thing...
 
Trouble is where do you draw the line? Smokers? Obesity? Alcohol abusers? It's not an easy argument. I'm not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations and as much as the unvaccinated piss me off I don't think making them get vaccinated would win any hearts and minds. We need other incentives and better education/explanation... oh and a government that doesn't tell lies all the time and live by a different set of rules to the rest of us!

You draw the line at COVID, because it is quite clear that the unvaccinated are a burden on our healthcare system in a way that smokers, the obese and alcohol abusers are not (they tend to die younger so their lifetime care costs may be lower then healthy people). Plus for under $20 it can largely be prevented.
 
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