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Mustang E

gintonic said:
at our last car purchase just over 3 years ago. I booked an appointment at the Volvo dealer to test drive an XC60. The dealership were rude, disinterested and didn't do anything I asked of them. Worse dealership experience ever. Glad I went back to Porsche
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I'm sure you are on record here as declaring the Volvo marque to be rather beneath you. So I'm surprised you even considered it.
 
Nic Robinson said:
I'm sure you are on record here as declaring the Volvo marque to be rather beneath you. So I'm surprised you even considered it.
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no marque is beneath me. Volvo were and are on my target list of manufacturers, as are Kia, Hyundai and Honda.

You are clearly confusing me with someone else
 
NeilR said:
Don’t buy a Taycan, whatever you do

https://www.teslarati.com/porsche-w...hGk7YI6dAa71ALuYOTHvlxWn9Z26-pW8mlID0zywRxHDE
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Hmmm.. a site called “Teslarati” is of course going to be even-handed about the Porsce Taycan.

But where I stopped believing was here: “The 800 V architecture of the Taycan, a vehicle the German automaker is proud of, has many advantages, but the strong current requires …”. Georg Ohm would be disappointed to see a fellow countryman make such an error. Using higher voltage results in lower current in conductors, and thus less heat - that was the reason for developing a high-voltage electrical architecture in the first place.

The story itself smells like bullshit. The sort of thing that car companies aren’t above spreading about their competitors (but only in a un-traceable, un-actionable fashion via influencers, bloggers and “tip-offs”). VW Group have done this in the past in other countries, I don’t see why Tesla, of all companies, would be an exception.
 
KrisW said:
Hmmm.. a site called “Teslarati” is of course going to be even-handed about the Porsce Taycan.

But where I stopped believing was here: “The 800 V architecture of the Taycan, a vehicle the German automaker is proud of, has many advantages, but the strong current requires …”. Georg Ohm would be disappointed to see a fellow countryman make such an error. Using higher voltage results in lower current in conductors, and thus less heat - that was the reason for developing a high-voltage electrical architecture in the first place.

The story itself smells like bullshit. The sort of thing that car companies aren’t above spreading about their competitors (but only in a un-traceable, un-actionable fashion via influencers, bloggers and “tip-offs”). VW Group have done this in the past in other countries, I don’t see why Tesla, of all companies, would be an exception.
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Exactly my thoughts when reading this bolleaux. Inaccurate, full of innuendo and what if's, designed to perpetuate and create myths.
 
KrisW said:
Hmmm.. a site called “Teslarati” is of course going to be even-handed about the Porsce Taycan.

But where I stopped believing was here: “The 800 V architecture of the Taycan, a vehicle the German automaker is proud of, has many advantages, but the strong current requires …”. Georg Ohm would be disappointed to see a fellow countryman make such an error. Using higher voltage results in lower current in conductors, and thus less heat - that was the reason for developing a high-voltage electrical architecture in the first place.

The story itself smells like bullshit. The sort of thing that car companies aren’t above spreading about their competitors (but only in a un-traceable, un-actionable fashion via influencers, bloggers and “tip-offs”). VW Group have done this in the past in other countries, I don’t see why Tesla, of all companies, would be an exception.
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Agree WRT higher voltage requiring lower current, but the above could simply be a typo.
 
KrisW said:
Hmmm.. a site called “Teslarati” is of course going to be even-handed about the Porsce Taycan.

But where I stopped believing was here: “The 800 V architecture of the Taycan, a vehicle the German automaker is proud of, has many advantages, but the strong current requires …”. Georg Ohm would be disappointed to see a fellow countryman make such an error. Using higher voltage results in lower current in conductors, and thus less heat - that was the reason for developing a high-voltage electrical architecture in the first place.

The story itself smells like bullshit. The sort of thing that car companies aren’t above spreading about their competitors (but only in a un-traceable, un-actionable fashion via influencers, bloggers and “tip-offs”). VW Group have done this in the past in other countries, I don’t see why Tesla, of all companies, would be an exception.
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Could well be. Time will tell.

Regardless of the alleged battery charging issue two other things spring to mind. Firstly, the battery warranty on the Taycan is rubbish with so many weasel get out clauses:

Vehicles standing longer than two weeks supposed to be connected to a charger

  • Customers must assure that the Taycan’s state of charge remains between 20% – 50%
  • Customers must make sure that their Taycan is not exposed to continuous sunlight
Vehicles standing longer than two weeks not connected to a charger

  • Customers must charge the Taycan’s battery before to 50%
  • Customers must check every three months and assure SoC remains at or above 20%
  • Customers must assure that their vehicle’s temperature is between 0C – 20C
While 160,000 km is an average battery warranty in the industry, Porsche confirmed to me the 100,000 km lower, 60,000 km warranty and its restrictions.
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The second thing is that for warranty claims, the customer has to pay labour for the repairs. This is a new one on me, is this usual practice for Porsche? for every manufacturer I have had experience with warranty repairs are free of charge.

These two things alone would be enough to stop me from buying a Taycan.
 
I was surprised that the Porsche could accelerate flat out as many times as you want but the really fast Tesla couldn’t as it over heats the battery. May have misread this but it would explain perhaps that Porsche have over promised.
 
@Rodrat - the ability to drive fast repeatedly is a function of the Taycan’s higher-voltage internal architecture. Heat is why Teslas can’t be driven hard for long periods. By using a higher voltage, Porsche can achieve higher power transfer at lower current levels, and thus less heat. (In fairness to Tesla, they have never claimed that their products are sportscars, just that they can go from 0-60 very quickly; true sportscars need a bit more than that).

@NeilR - read carefully what he says about those warranty terms. Those rules are the reasons Porsche can use to limit your warranty to just 60,000 km. The standard warranty is not 60,000 km, but rather 100,000 km and three years. The article does say this, but using misleading and clumsy language (which I’ll forgive as the author is German, and I recognise the German grammatical construction he was mentally translating into English).

The terms themselves aren’t exactly onerous - they look pretty much like you’ll have on a petrol car warranty (ensure fluids are kept topped up, don’t store with fuel and fluids for extended periods, service regularly, do not expose to consistent high temperatures).
 
KrisW said:
@Rodrat - the ability to drive fast repeatedly is a function of the Taycan’s higher-voltage internal architecture. Heat is why Teslas can’t be driven hard for long periods. By using a higher voltage, Porsche can achieve higher power transfer at lower current levels, and thus less heat. (In fairness to Tesla, they have never claimed that their products are sportscars, just that they can go from 0-60 very quickly; true sportscars need a bit more than that).

@NeilR - read carefully what he says about those warranty terms. Those rules are the reasons Porsche can use to limit your warranty to just 60,000 km. The standard warranty is not 60,000 km, but rather 100,000 km and three years. The article does say this, but using misleading and clumsy language (which I’ll forgive as the author is German, and I recognise the German grammatical construction he was mentally translating into English).

The terms themselves aren’t exactly onerous - they look pretty much like you’ll have on a petrol car warranty (ensure fluids are kept topped up, don’t store with fuel and fluids for extended periods, service regularly, do not expose to consistent high temperatures).
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I understand him to be talking specifically about the battery warranty here, which can be reduced to 3 years/60'000 km if some conditions are not met. This is separate to the whole car warranty.

The battery warranty on our EV is 8 years/160'000km without these restrictions, so yes, it is a crap warranty if the article is correct
 
I should have been a little clearer: Porsche is infamous for warranties with nasty conditions. For a long time, they would disclaim liability for suspension issues if they found you weren’t using the special Porsche-approved tyres (the ones that cost 50% more than the equivalent non-approved tyre). But the author of this article seems to be over-egging it a bit.

However, I wonder if that battery warranty info is actually from the United States, because in order to be homologated for sale in the EU, a carmaker must provide evidence that their car will provide “consistent performance” over the first 5 years or 160,000 km of use. This rule also applies to EVs, and “consistent performance” for EV batteries is generally accepted to be retained capacity of at around 70%.

Consumer protection regulations in Europe are also much, much stronger than in the USA, so it would be extremely difficult to make such shitty terms stick in a market where everyone else is prepared to warrant their batteries for 160,000 km and at least 5 years.

Actually, a quick search shows that the standard battery warranty for electric cars appears to be eight years or 160,000 km. MG and Kia are exceptions and only offer 7 years. For most makers, they guarantee 70% capacity after that time, but some allow themselves greater amount of capacity deterioration (Renault Zoe and all Kia models say 66%, and Tesla won’t guarantee retained capacity at all for its Model S and X, but will guarantee at least 70% for the 3)
 
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