JTC
PFM Villager...
Many contemporary class A amps work this way - the variable being how big the 'class A' region is. My amp has 30w, but to be fair I doubt I ever use more than 1-2w with my 93dB Tannoys.
Future power consumption with home electronics!
- Thread starter wow&flutter
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Tony L
Administrator
Obviously its such a niche made up on the spot claim I have no evidence, though to my mind the real damage is unnecessary manufacturing and throwing toxic products into landfill or shipping them across the world so slave children in Vietnam, China, India etc can boil any reusable materials out of the board.
I’m currently listening to a record on my main system, so a late 60s record deck, tonearm, power amp and speakers and a late-90s preamp full of 1960s valves. The only waste products this system has produced is a small bag of dead capacitors, a couple of noisy valves and a few worn styluses and cartridges. The cart is the only recent piece of kit in the system only being a few years old. As such the average of component here is >40 years old. That’s a lot of shit kept out of landfill.
Obviously I haven’t owned this system for that long, and it is only the analogue components. Even so I can’t recall ever throwing a piece of hi-fi away as I have always bought stuff that retains its value. Buy shit buy twice means even more now where our species needs to grasp that we are responsible for our actions. That Krell is unlikely ever to end up in a sea turtle. Not so sure about some cheap piece of plastic shit from Argos or wherever.
I actually try and go further these days and buy things that I know I can add value to with obsessive refurbishment, e.g. my 124, Leaks, 303s etc are all in vastly better condition now than when I obtained them and will have a far longer service life regardless of whether it is me using them or a future user.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
My studio monitors (Focal Shape 50), which have dual class A/B amplification (60W low/mid, 25W high), have an auto-standby mode which drops power consumption to <0.5W. It comes on after 30 minutes of no signal and is deactivated when a signal >3mV is detected. There is no way to disable this functionality (well, without opening them up I guess). It's not nearly as much of an annoyance as I had seen people make it out to be in reviews and it's good to know that if I forget to turn them off when I take a break, I'm not using unnecessary electricity.
I would imagine that this sort of thing will become more common alongside class D.
I would imagine that this sort of thing will become more common alongside class D.
chris geary
pfm Member
when I went from 1 klout to 2 klouts to 3 klouts, i was leaving them on all the time, but the electric bill started getting ridiculous. So i rigged up the remote start cables from the Kairn to the Klouts and I turn it all off when I am not listening. I power off the HiCap and NAXO as well. Makes a significant difference in the monthly bill.
pocketkitchen
Registered User
I’m going to use that argument the next time my wife reminds me that the KSA50 is ugly. She absolutely hates it. “But darling, I’m saving the sea turtles!”
It’s a valid point though, The Market demands we buy new stuff to keep the economy growing and we consume ever more resources feeding it. With ever-increasing miniaturisation meaning stuff can’t be fixed we’re literally doing the opposite of being environmentally responsible.
Thats so true..it seems the plan, if there ever was/ is one.. is well and truly flawed..
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
Fairy snuff. You're probably right, but also haven't seen any reliable info on it overall when it comes to ancient audio kit. That prompted me to ask.
Tony L
Administrator
It is a key area I want to push when arguing for Right To Repair. I see it as more than the basic right to have absolute control over ones own possessions (i.e. we must fight the move to effectively leasing kit such as phones, computers, cars etc), it also protects the environment. I want to see a return to the days schematics are included with all electronics the way they were with say vintage Quads, Leaks, BBC Micros, early IBM PCs etc etc. That and open up supply chains. We really do need to move away from endless consumerism due to deliberate obsolescence and towards a sustainable model. Buy good stuff, buy it second hand if you can’t afford to buy it new, and run it for as long as you like safe in the knowledge it is repairable and sellable to a new owner down the line. Of we keep junk out of landfill everyone benefits with the exception of those who are trying to sell us ever differing versions of shite that is designed to break and not be fixable.
forester
pfm Member
Who is leaving their power amps on all the time these days unless they have shares in a capacitor factory? I don't think it's too controversial to say that after 15 minutes there's not much difference. Pre amps can be justified in some cases but don't use as much power anyway.
All the stats to work out the impact of manufacturing new kit is published, just need grams (or kilograms) of steel, aluminium, plastics, circuit board, wire, components etc, plus haulage and you can calculate it. A bit tedious and rarely favourable to the new kit. Most of the arguments like scrapping older cars for new ones are false when you do the sums. A new electric car takes 70 k miles to 'break even' against a new IC car because of the extra manufacturing emissions (Volvo's figures). It's going to be loads longer against one already manufactured even if fuel consumption isn't great.
All the stats to work out the impact of manufacturing new kit is published, just need grams (or kilograms) of steel, aluminium, plastics, circuit board, wire, components etc, plus haulage and you can calculate it. A bit tedious and rarely favourable to the new kit. Most of the arguments like scrapping older cars for new ones are false when you do the sums. A new electric car takes 70 k miles to 'break even' against a new IC car because of the extra manufacturing emissions (Volvo's figures). It's going to be loads longer against one already manufactured even if fuel consumption isn't great.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
TBH the only time I left amps on all day intentionally was when developing/testing them. In use they should work fine promptly from power-up. Mind you, I formed this view from using and examining the old Armstrong 600 amps where the drivers and splitter were far away from the output devices. The design worked OK, but the o/p device sink temperature and idle conditions wandered about. Not a 'feature' I liked. However it was fairly low power when idling.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
The logic of that is to keep the 'car' and replace the IC engine with an electric motor, batteries, etc.
The alternative is, of course, to change the engine to use 'hydrogen' (sic) obtained via green power sources.That said, cars are largely designed to 'wear out' anyway because the makers want to go on selling 'new ones'. That's one reason I'm a bit doubtful about claims like the Volvo one. These things depend on the assumptions that were chosen as the basis of the 'conclusion'.
Bit like the story that I think Ken Livingstone used to tell about when the GLC wanted a new accountant. They showed each candidate 'the books' and asked them to work out the balance, etc. They hired the one who asked, "What answer would you like?"
Tony L
Administrator
I did for a while in my Linn/Naim days as I stupidly bought into the groupthink/mass hysteria about such things. I was never that convinced it made any real difference, certainly not to power amps. I ended up leaving the preamp (e.g. 32.5/HiCap) on 24/7 but turning the power amps off. To my ears Naim sound great after half an hour or so, as does say a Quad 303 or whatever, but they don’t sound bad from cold. My Pass Aleph class A amp probably has the biggest shift from cold to hot, that really opens up, but that only takes 40 minutes or so and again it doesn’t sound bad cold. I don’t pre-warm-up before listening or anything. Valve amps seem to take even less time and sound great right from the first note.
iansr
pfm Member
There are a growing number of economists who consider that the model of never ending growth and expansion is ultimately unsustainable and that we are rapidly approaching the point where a profound fundamental shift is required. Robotics, AI and automation in general are hastening the end of current socio-economic structures. Disruption? You ain’t seen nothing yet . . .
iansr
pfm Member
I had a pair of Aleph 2s for a while (the Borg cubes). The difference between how they sounded when cold and 1 hour later was enormous. Leaving them all the time was simply not an option due to heat and cost. It made them totally impractical as far as I was concerned and I eventually sold them for that reason. In contrast, Colin’s amps not only sound much better but also come on song much quicker.
Swann36
A widower finding solace in music
Well said
quickie
pfm Member
My TOCA amps sounded better after 45 mins or so, but the difference wasn't huge, and I wouldn't leave something that draws 1/2 kW or so running @ 55 deg C powered up permanently.
Thankfully, as stated above, Cols newer designs are much more frugal, and my A40 even turns itself off after 60mins if no music playing.
Thankfully, as stated above, Cols newer designs are much more frugal, and my A40 even turns itself off after 60mins if no music playing.
John
Rack’em Up!
To you maybe.