Labour Leader: Keir Starmer V
- Thread starter Seanm
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tonerei
pfm Member
Yes I would agree that is very much a possibility once none of the opposition parties make silly moves. Hope it transpires that way but with FPTP transfers to other parties make it a winner takes all and unfortunately it would require smart thinking by voters to maybe ditch their preference for the second choice (non tory ukip) to ensure the largest number of opposition MPs get elected. Can't see that happening in any meaningful way.
I see from the posts that follows how emotive and divisive things are against the Labour party and within it. It would appear if this thread is anything to go by the voters will do the work for the Tories. The Labour party should have pushed PR through during their last glory years with Blair. The mood towards Blair prior to Iraq was generally always positive I feel anyway.
Tony L
Administrator
This has always been the case. The Tories know damn well 60% or more of the electorate (huge numbers don’t vote) do not support their elite rule and fully realise just how split that vote is. The system is designed to do exactly what it does. It returns Tories without any legitimate mandate to a position of absolute power time after time. Until Labour get fully on board with PR the situation will continue in it’s ever-rightward recursive loop.
Seanm
pfm Member
When you put it like that, PR just sort of looks like a stitch up between parties that can’t get anywhere because they’re crap and nobody likes them. Maybe a better alternative would be to have a party that encourages people to vote by offering them policies that are meaningful to them and will improve their lives.
(Only joking! Not allowed this in the U.K., where this kind of thing is called “bribing the electorate”.)
Seanm
pfm Member
Two of Labour’s biggest, most entitled arseholes here, getting down to the job they were brought in to do, which is out-Patel Patel on border rhetoric:
https://twitter.com/yvettecoopermp/status/1465706104940204047?s=21
The worst people. Tories are actually somewhat less poisonous at the moment because having to govern means that they’re at least partially restrained by reality.
https://twitter.com/yvettecoopermp/status/1465706104940204047?s=21
The worst people. Tories are actually somewhat less poisonous at the moment because having to govern means that they’re at least partially restrained by reality.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
the_bat
pfm Member
I may be missing your point, but the letter they've sent is specifically about Covid testing for people travelling to the UK from abroad, not general purpose border rhetoric..
sean99
pfm Member
This thread has ample evidence of why the left and center left rarely achieve power in the UK. They are too busy attacking each other, and leave the goal open for the Tories. After a decade out of power as the country spirals into the toilet you'd have thought they would learn, but unfortunately that does not appear to be the case.
The only hope for the UK seems to be PR with coalitions from the center and left.
The only hope for the UK seems to be PR with coalitions from the center and left.
Seanm
pfm Member
It doesn't have to be: the effect of talking up borders, and using them as a political weapon, is always the same, regardless of whose specific irrational beliefs are being exploited.
Seanm
pfm Member
What if I told you...The centre are actually the right?
sean99
pfm Member
There you go again. You may feel morally and or intellectually superior, but you are condemning yourself and others to an eternity of Tory rule.
I agree with many of the points you raise, but if you're perpetually in opposition it doesn't matter what good intentions you have.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
I recall seeing some hope that Labour are at least looking at PR in an article the other day in the grauniad. I certainly hope so. If it's patently obvious to the likes of us that they stand no chance without PR then it must be even more so to all the politics graduates etc in the party!
IMHO compulsory voting (as in Australia) should be brought in if Labour are ever again in a position to do so. The poorest, least educated people are IME about the least likely to vote or to take any interest in politics and yet stand to gain the most from a Labour gov! It would at least ensure that the result was truly the will of the people.
IMHO compulsory voting (as in Australia) should be brought in if Labour are ever again in a position to do so. The poorest, least educated people are IME about the least likely to vote or to take any interest in politics and yet stand to gain the most from a Labour gov! It would at least ensure that the result was truly the will of the people.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
On the other hand, what good are good intentions if you have to compromise on them exponentially just to gain power? Blair achieved power and did some good by compromising with right wing populism, but the question for that as an ongoing tactic, is when does compromise become capitulation with the very thing you set out to oppose?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Parties in opposition look at PR. Parties in Government don’t.
Enfield boy
pfm Member
Have the most to gain certainly, the lack of a broad based education might just lead them to vote in accordance with Rupert Murdoch's wishes. From what we see about the US the white poor at least were Trump's biggest fans.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Surely you haven’t just noticed, sean? I am centre left and have been all of my life yet I am accused here of being right-wing, ‘alt-right’ and all manner of tory type of labels stuck on me.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Just look at two current threads (coronavirus and MMT). In both threads two of pfm’s left-leaning posters are knocking seven shades of shit out of each other when you’d think they’d agree on things (and they probably do agree, really. I can’t keep up with the minutiae of their disagreements).
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