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Is it time for all motor vehicles to be fitted with a black box?

According to DVLA there are over 8000 drivers with more than 12 points https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...ers-escape-ban-despite-racking-12-points.html

Isn’t the internet wonderful. But as I don’t know anyone who has escaped a ban then this must all be lies?
If it was a .gov.uk website then I may believe it but not from some media site awash with links to click. Do I really want to know what Susan Boyle looks like now? Ermm, let me think. No!

The courts want to punish the offender and if a ban ends up punishing dependants, kids etc they they may just dish out some more points and a big fine. Of course a ban means you get a clean licence back so it can be beneficial for some.

The courts like to
 
Two unconnected points.

Do you have data to compare numbers of those who are banned and those who aren’t? I’ve been driving for 39 years, and I can’t recall knowing anyone who has kept their license at 12 points.
I watched somebody leave the court with 14 points and their licence. Losing it would have meant the loss of his job.
 
Hardship to his family I expect. Unable to pay mortgage etc.
He brought a solicitor with him to plead his case.

So I hope he was a good boy after and finally learned his lesson.

I’m sure a few here watch the traffic police programmes on the gogglebox, and maybe also like me, just can’t understand some of the feeble punishments handed down. I’m not talking about someone doing 100mph+ on a motorway, but someone with cocaine in their body in a stolen car who is chased at very high speed for twenty minutes or so and then crashes into a parked car, legs it, is caught but fights being cuffed, lies about who they are… and gets a two year ban and a suspended sentence.

I’m a live and let live kind of bloke, but a lifetime ban would just be the start of it for me. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
 
He looked suitably chastised and was sweating like a fat bloke in a sauna! It was all an accumulation of FP speeding offences rather than drink-driving.
 
I’m sure a few here watch the traffic police programmes on the gogglebox, and maybe also like me, just can’t understand some of the feeble punishments handed down. I’m not talking about someone doing 100mph+ on a motorway, but someone with cocaine in their body in a stolen car who is chased at very high speed for twenty minutes or so and then crashes into a parked car, legs it, is caught but fights being cuffed, lies about who they are… and gets a two year ban and a suspended sentence.

I’m a live and let live kind of bloke, but a lifetime ban would just be the start of it for me. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

It does seem unfair when scrotes get a lenient punishment, there must be guidelines being followed though. it would be interesting to get somebody with no criminal record to commit the same offence as the scrote and see what punitive measures are given by the court in those circumstances.

A lifetime ban would simply be ignored by the criminal fraternity. And of course if you know you are going to receive a lifetime ban then there's even more reason to nail it to ensure you escape. Like shooting one person in front of three witnesses...
 
I got back early afternoon from my epic journey to Nottm and back. A round trip of almost 211 miles!!! :eek:

Your ‘reason’ for speeding has been used to justify it for decades. And saying that speeding in a 30 zone is far worse has also been used for decades. Yet you (we, me, everyone) has the choice to not speed. Funny old thing, this driving.

You confuse a 'reason' with a 'justification'. There can be no justification for speeding within any class of limit or on any type of road. If you disagree with the speed limit, the proper thing to do is to campain against it, as you would with any other legal issue. If you speed you risk a fine. It's that simple. I've been clocked twice in a 50+ year driving career. I was simply agreeing with someone who posted earlier pointing out that accidents are not necessarily directly attributable to excessive speed etc. Traffic density, road conditions and many more factors contribute.

I get you, but a consequence of just 'you' and no-one else on the road isn't a fully solid argument, is it? When just 'you' has a momentary lapse of concentration at 85mph, and you crash, the knock on effect of that on other road users, the emergency services that have to attend when they could be doing something else, your family and friends that have to go through the trauma of seeing you seriously injured... I could go on.

A momentary lapse can happen at any speed but is far more likely to cause an accident on a busy road at rush hour.. in any speed limit, than it is on a straight empty dual carriageway in clear conditions with no other vehicles in sight. But then if it does, one has to wonder how much worse it would be at 85, than at 70. No doubt one of our physicists will be along soon with an answer.


That could not have happened in the situation I quoted because there was no other traffic on the road. I think that is now the third time I've made that point.

I can’t help but feel that those who speed on the motorway will do so habitually in other areas? Speed limits should be very simple to understand.

I think that is a massive assumption. Like many people, I may 'steal' a couple of MPH on M'way, or a good dual carriageway, so maybe creeping up to 74 or 5 for e,g., as that is often smoother than sticking exactly to 70 and being 'out of sync' with practically every other vehicle on the road. But as I have pointed out numerous times, I absolutely DO NOT speed in 20/30/40/ 50 or even 60 mph zones. The main reason for that being that they tend to be areas of high traffic with many other objective hazards such as slips, junctions, crossroads, lights, schools, buses, pedestrians etc, etc. In fact, I frequently drive considerably below the 30 limit on housing developments for e.g. It is too fast. The A50, as I am continously pointing out has none of those hazards except at Uttoxeter..for about a mile.



My exact experience on Saturday. As I joined the seemingly permanent 50 mph section on the M6 around Manchester.. the first thing I saw was some clown in the outer lane travelling at about 80 right up to the back of a car doing 50..then pressurising him into moving over so that the prick could carry on doing way above 50.

A few miles further on, and back in a 70 limit, I was in the second lane steadily overtaking slower vehicles in lane 1, when I became aware of a BMW very close behind me. It stayed uncomfortably close behind me, even though it had ample opportunity to pass me on the outside if the driver thought he was being held up in any way. Next, a couple of 'Traffic Officer' vehicles shot up the inside and started weaving in front of all lanes, with their 'Don't Pass' lights on and created a 'rolling road block', bringing us all down to a crawl. The BMW behind me stayed very close. I stayed about 30-40 metres behind the 'Traffic Officers', matching pace with them..as did those in all other lanes.
This situation continued for several miles. I then started hearing a horn beeping and realised it was from the BMW behind me. Quite where he wanted me to go I have no idea. Next, the Traffic Officers speeded up to around 50-60 mph for a mile or so. I stayed in lane, and with them. The BMW was a bit slower off the mark but soon caught up and beeped me again when we slowed down again and I re-established the gap between me and the Traffic Car. Finally, after another couple of miles with no evidence of any hazard requiring the whole 'Road Block' palaver, the Traffic Officers switched off their No Pass lights and peeled off to the left. At this point the knob in the Beemer finally decided to move right and overtake me, though I as doing 70. What was all that about then?
I have a feeling that the 'Traffic Officers' are doing practice roadblocks, because on my return journey today, I noticed about dozen of them parked up on an overbridge above the M6. I also followed one for a while. It was on a trailer and clearly damaged. One can only speculate. :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps there needs to be more jeopardy. If you get to keep your licence despite 12 points, the next endorseable offence while you’re on 12 points gets you a month’s jail time.

Oh God, that makes me sound like Priti Patel.

The courts use of antecedents in traffic cases can be sporadic. Also, this kind of thing falls into admissibility ie you prove the traffic offence again, and then submit antecedents for the court to consider. Often this is best done if the oic is called to court, but for a guilty plea that isn’t requested - there is a potential loophole…
 
A momentary lapse can happen at any speed but is far more likely to cause an accident on a busy road at rush hour.. in any speed limit, than it is on a straight empty dual carriageway in clear conditions with no other vehicles in sight. But then if it does, one has to wonder how much worse it would be at 85, than at 70. No doubt one of our physicists will be along soon with an answer.

I’m being pedantic here, but the term ‘accident’ is misused in 99.5% of crashes. A much better term is ‘collisions’, and 99.5% of all collisions have a degree of blameworthiness.

Re the quote above, IME the driver/passengers in the vehicle will walk away relatively unscathed at 30mph. A pedestrian will not. At 70+ the vehicle occupants are very likely to sustain serious/life altering/life threatening injuries. Other vehicle occupants likewise.

We have lots of ‘fast’ dark roads in Notts(not unique, I know), and the number of times I read a debrief of where vehicle leaves a road at speed with ‘nothing else’ involved…
 
That could not have happened in the situation I quoted because there was no other traffic on the road.
"No other traffic on the road"! Blimey, that takes me back...

Returning from my fortnightly trip from Suffolk to The Lakes on Sunday, we were forced to abandon our usual route by a surfeit of the white, cold stuff blocking the A66, and had to resort to heading off down the dreaded M6. Being very early in the morning the traffic was light, but I was staggered by the number of roadworks on that road. The usual cone collections around Birmingham of course which, I believe, predate the construction of the Pyramids, plus several other long stretches with the speed limit going up & down like a lady of the night's drawers. Horrid road.
 
Ah yes - the courts can be very 'sympathetic' to that kind of thing... The art is to ensure such drivers are behaving after such leniency has been shown...
On the one and only occasion that I had to discuss my speed with magistrates, the person before me was a squaddie who kept his licence after accumulating 14 points. The leading magistrate gave him some very clear advice about his future driving and what would happen if she saw him before her again. The Sergeant marching him out of court was clearly not amused!
 
On the one and only occasion that I had to discuss my speed with magistrates, the person before me was a squaddie who kept his licence after accumulating 14 points. The leading magistrate gave him some very clear advice about his future driving and what would happen if she saw him before her again. The Sergeant marching him out of court was clearly not amused!
We had a serving army officer at Wattisham who was hauled into court for doing 140mph+ in his Aston Martin. No, it wasn’t the illegitimate Duracell, but yes he kept his license.
 
My exact experience on Saturday. As I joined the seemingly permanent 50 mph section on the M6 around Manchester.. the first thing I saw was some clown in the outer lane travelling at about 80 right up to the back of a car doing 50..then pressurising him into moving over so that the prick could carry on doing way above 50.

You need to pay more attention and make a clear note of the roads you are travelling on. The M6 doesn’t go near Manchester. The Motorway you described was actually the M56.;)

I do wonder how some drivers are getting away speeding between those (or any) average speed cameras. Are they even working or is the car/driver not registered?
 
"No other traffic on the road"! Blimey, that takes me back...

Returning from my fortnightly trip from Suffolk to The Lakes on Sunday, we were forced to abandon our usual route by a surfeit of the white, cold stuff blocking the A66, and had to resort to heading off down the dreaded M6. Being very early in the morning the traffic was light, but I was staggered by the number of roadworks on that road. The usual cone collections around Birmingham of course which, I believe, predate the construction of the Pyramids, plus several other long stretches with the speed limit going up & down like a lady of the night's drawers. Horrid road.
Those variable speed cameras are dangerous IMO the way they’re used in that section. The big variations from one gantry to the next is too excessive at times. Keeps the speed cameras mounted on them busy though…
 
You confuse a 'reason' with a 'justification'. There can be no justification for speeding within any class of limit or on any type of road. If you disagree with the speed limit, the proper thing to do is to campain against it, as you would with any other legal issue. If you speed you risk a fine. It's that simple. I've been clocked twice in a 50+ year driving career. I was simply agreeing with someone who posted earlier pointing out that accidents are not necessarily directly attributable to excessive speed etc. Traffic density, road conditions and many more factors contribute.

Certainly justified in emergencies, i had one taking someone to hospital, blood dripping out and he passed out a couple of times. Phoned ahead to line up doctors and they were at the door of A & E ready.

I'd do the same again, every second counts.
 
If it was a .gov.uk website then I may believe it but not from some media site awash with links to click. Do I really want to know what Susan Boyle looks like now? Ermm, let me think. No!

The courts want to punish the offender and if a ban ends up punishing dependants, kids etc they they may just dish out some more points and a big fine. Of course a ban means you get a clean licence back so it can be beneficial for some.

The courts like to
It’s DVLA figures & these have been reported elsewhere.

If you have been banned you have to declare it when applying for car insurance, it will count far more than points.
 
You need to pay more attention and make a clear note of the roads you are travelling on. The M6 doesn’t go near Manchester. The Motorway you described was actually the M56.;)

I do wonder how some drivers are getting away speeding between those (or any) average speed cameras. Are they even working or is the car/driver not registered?
Or are the cameras not switched on?
 
So I hope he was a good boy after and finally learned his lesson.

I’m sure a few here watch the traffic police programmes on the gogglebox, and maybe also like me, just can’t understand some of the feeble punishments handed down. I’m not talking about someone doing 100mph+ on a motorway, but someone with cocaine in their body in a stolen car who is chased at very high speed for twenty minutes or so and then crashes into a parked car, legs it, is caught but fights being cuffed, lies about who they are… and gets a two year ban and a suspended sentence.

I’m a live and let live kind of bloke, but a lifetime ban would just be the start of it for me. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
I tend to agree. I do think the punishment for relatively minor speeding transgressions is disproportionate, when you see the sort of punishment meted out to offenders such as you describe. It is quite possible to accumulate 12 points, and a 6 month ban, for four incidents of slightly exceeding the speed limit (say, more than 5mph but less than 10mph above the posted limit) over a 3 year period. The speed limit is also absolute, and takes no account of prevailing conditions*. I believe in many other countries, minor speeding is dealt with by a roadside ticket (fine only, no endorsement). Mind you, we're better than the US, where being pulled over for speeding carries a real risk of being shot.

*I've pointed out before that speed limits tend to be set with the lowest common denominator in mind: badly maintained car, poor tyres and brakes, inattentive driver, bad weather; if 40mph is deemed safe with that combination of factors, then 47mph might be equally safe in a well-maintained car with an alert driver in good weather and light traffic.
 


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