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Before I throw the towel in on audio - alert: long post.

@Maxbertola , that is good to know. Nothing beats a home demo as the same speakers will not sound alike in different rooms. I prefer the M30s over P3ESR for their more vivid and forward presentation. The M30.2 has a more forward sound and extended treble than M30.1.

I do not have experience with Marten Miles II but my experience as well as few others suggest that the Naim may not be the best match to the Marten. There are several Duke 2 owners on the Naim forum, 3 or 4 if I'm not mistaken, and most use non-Naim amps to drive the Marten. The Marten sounded slightly forced and unnatural when driven by the 282/250DR in my system. The treble also showed a bit of glare and brightness. I later switched to a Class A Luxman and it's heaven. Another Duke 2 owner initially used 552/300DR with the speakers but later brought in a big Sugden Class A amp to warm up the sound, matched with the 552.
 
ryder,

as I have written, my Miles IIs were driven by a Bow Technologies Wazoo XL, and it was a wonderful combination. When I decided, rather irrationally, to trade the Bow for a 202/200 combo, I was well aware that the sound was going from 'chamber music' to 'country fair', but I insisted.. I wish I had just 1 € for every b*****it I have done.

I am more and more thinking that Mr Pig was very right to begin with, I am fencing my choice with a number of absurd prerequisites when the truth is that the 40W, EL34 based amp is not enough for a large room.
I have circled around the Harbeth Idea like a moth around a lightbulb for years, and I cannot bring myself to join the club; but yes, M30s are more likely to be a sensible choice. But not with 40 tube watts. I think that perhaps I should start with changing the amp.

Per,
hi. Have you understood now..? :) I hope all is well up there in Denmark. M.

tenpercenter,
not many chances to demo a pair of K Red 50s, but a friend dealer in another town has a pair of RK's floor standers. More options, but thanks for all the suggestions. Ours is sometimes a difficult hobby. M.
 
Bit late to the party here, but have to agree with Mr Pig and Mike M A. I also endorse big ProAcs, partly because you can dem. them, but mainly because I've had three (R3, R3.5, R4) with Naim (1st 2) and valved amplification. Additionally, ProAcs were designed around ARC valved amplification; at least, the earlier models. The D range ports out of the base, I believe, allowing more convenient placement. ProAcs are slightly warm (as opposed to cool SBLs) but dynamic and, i.m.o., favour classical music. Oh yes, they're pretty efficient and have benign loads too.

Still waiting for the room layout/dim's etc as otherwise it's simply kit recommendation rather that root and branch suggestions.
 
Try to find some Sonus Faber Extremas A friend of mine had a pair and they were really impressive for such small boxes Need stands though and power

eddie
 
So, before I resign myself to the implied suggestion by fate that home audio is a silly game from which no real satisfaction can be had and that only some people actually manage to get musical involvement from hifi, to which group I don't belong, can someone give opinions/suggestions on speakers that tick most of these boxes please?

- Small size (not more than LS5/9s)
- A regular impedance pattern that won't disturb my innocent, lovely amp
- Sealed box (or, if a port is absolutely unavoidable, a front one)
- Decent sensitivity (at least 88 dB/1W)
- Can be placed close to the wall
- Do not require more than a 40W amp to be audible
- No particular sound signature and a honest approach to all kinds of acoustic music.

If you are stuck with a horrible sounding odd-shaped room my recommendation would be nearfield listening. I’m in no way exaggerating when I say I could be absolutely content with an LS3/5A system and a beanbag to make say a 1.5m listening triangle. Totally immersive listening, work fabulously well with even 10 Watt valve amps (my EL84 Leaks drive them great) and no source or amp is ‘too good’ for them. They just scale to the quality they are fed (note quality, not quantity). The only fail on your list is near-wall positioning, they need a foot or two behind them to really produce that totally immersive three-dimensional reality for which they are famed. Maybe a modern speaker like a Tablette 10 Signature would do much the same a little closer to a wall.

I can enjoy any music I have any interest in on this kind of system. The nearfield perspective reduces most of the room acoustic from the picture and a genuinely good monitor-grade speaker should be happy on classical, and IMHO if a speaker sounds right playing a piano, orchestra, string quartet, jazz band etc then studio-created rock, pop, electronica etc is going to sound how it is meant to sound. I can very happily listen to Squarepusher or whatever through LS3/5As, JR149s or whatever and a valve amp (or very good solid state). I’m amazed how good even reggae etc sounds, I’ve been working through the Bob Marley box and it sounds great on this rig.
 
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ryder,

as I have written, my Miles IIs were driven by a Bow Technologies Wazoo XL, and it was a wonderful combination. When I decided, rather irrationally, to trade the Bow for a 202/200 combo, I was well aware that the sound was going from 'chamber music' to 'country fair', but I insisted.. I wish I had just 1 € for every b*****it I have done.

I am more and more thinking that Mr Pig was very right to begin with, I am fencing my choice with a number of absurd prerequisites when the truth is that the 40W, EL34 based amp is not enough for a large room.
I have circled around the Harbeth Idea like a moth around a lightbulb for years, and I cannot bring myself to join the club; but yes, M30s are more likely to be a sensible choice. But not with 40 tube watts. I think that perhaps I should start with changing the amp.

Per,
hi. Have you understood now..? :) I hope all is well up there in Denmark. M.

tenpercenter,
not many chances to demo a pair of K Red 50s, but a friend dealer in another town has a pair of RK's floor standers. More options, but thanks for all the suggestions. Ours is sometimes a difficult hobby. M.
I've nothing to suggest that hasn't already been posted by others. All I want to say is I don't think your amp should be a problem because it is 40 watts. Although not as large as your 35sqm, my room is ~28sqm and I've had no problem using a EL34 amp at ~10 watts with 88db speakers.
 
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PrimaLuna EVO 100

- Small size (not more than LS5/9s)

Just quoting two key parts of your post. I wonder if you've answered your question in the second line. LS5/9s.

But your room is not small, so why the demand for this size of speaker?

One of your current problems is that your Primaluna is not really the best option for driving small speakers. It will do well with LS5/9s, though the mid-range will be dominant. Also I can tell you from experience that it will be good with Harbeths and Tannoys. With Harbeths you'll need to use the 4 Ohm tap, and it will most likely be best with smaller Tannoys, such as the Eatons which I use. But even the mid-sized Harbeths and Tannoy Eatons are larger than LS5/9s, so I think you're quite limited.

Jowcol has a nice pair of LS5/9s for sale on this forum - why not try them?
 
Just quoting two key parts of your post. I wonder if you've answered your question in the second line. LS5/9s.

But your room is not small, so why the demand for this size of speaker?

One of your current problems is that your Primaluna is not really the best option for driving small speakers. It will do well with LS5/9s, though the mid-range will be dominant. Also I can tell you from experience that it will be good with Harbeths and Tannoys. With Harbeths you'll need to use the 4 Ohm tap, and it will most likely be best with smaller Tannoys, such as the Eatons which I use. But even the mid-sized Harbeths and Tannoy Eatons are larger than LS5/9s, so I think you're quite limited.

Jowcol has a nice pair of LS5/9s for sale on this forum - why not try them?

I recall you mentioning that the (new) Legacy Eatons are quite a bit larger than the originals. Would an older pair fit the bill?
 
Although not as large as your 35sqm, my room is ~28sqm

I'm always confused by square measurements as most continental (and other) property sales are quoted in as they don't give any idea of dimensions. The good old British system of feet, length and width immediately conjures up an idea.

Out of interest I've just computed my area in metres and am surprised that it comes out as between 25 and 28 sq.m but it's an irregular rectangular shape which is theoretically better for an audio system. Can't understand anyone opting for small speakers when they can easily accommodate large ones, with their inherent advantages. However, having been a big speaker fan for 55 years in my main rig, I would say that !

These recommendations for cans make me smile; they are an exc. accessory to a full rig; not an alternative except in unfavourable small rooms.
 
I'm always confused by square measurements as most continental (and other) property sales are quoted in as they don't give any idea of dimensions. The good old British system of feet, length and width immediately conjures up an idea.

Out of interest I've just computed my area in metres and am surprised that it comes out as between 25 and 28 sq.m but it's an irregular rectangular shape which is theoretically better for an audio system. Can't understand anyone opting for small speakers when they can easily accommodate large ones, with their inherent advantages. However, having been a big speaker fan for 55 years in my main rig, I would say that !

These recommendations for cans make me smile; they are an exc. accessory to a full rig; not an alternative except in unfavourable small rooms.
For me, cans are for holidays when I’m lounging around by the pool.
 
An "alternative" suggestion.

Listen to a pair or ProAcs, or other universially praised speakers, and confirm if the bass problem is your room. If you find the pair of well liked ProAcs boom (however other people/ reviews don't think so) in your room then you know where the issue lies.
You can most easily resolve bass boom problems by using DIGITAL active (DSP) bass drivers up to about 200Hz and then you can choose nearly any small 2 way you like together with your current amplifier to hear all the other parts of the frequency range.
If you are interested in the concept then read here to understand the principle, http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-741-BASS.htm, and ask your friend in the business what commercial products are available that work in a similar way.

By the way active loudspeakers that use non-digital crossovers will not help you so much as the boom modes will still be present, probably better controlled than passive loudspeakers but potentially still annoying. Only DSP can give you the very sharp filtering needed to remove/reduce specific low frequency (<200Hz) problems.
 
I think the suggestion of Tannoys was a good one. Big, open sound, efficient and a lot of flexibility with ports, bungs and the ability to tweak crossovers etc on some. Not cheap and you'll need to accept a speaker a bit bigger but a good option.

Fyne Audio speakers are also very good. Designed by the people behind Tannoy they share a lot of the flavour and the trick bass port thing they have really works.
I don't know how easy Fyne Audio are to find in Italy, but I would endorse this. Specifically, the F1-5 small standmounter which is pretty amazing for the money. Actually, it's pretty amazing, period, but when you factor in what it costs, it's doubly amazing.
 
I don't know how easy Fyne Audio are to find in Italy, but I would endorse this. Specifically, the F1-5 small standmounter which is pretty amazing for the money. Actually, it's pretty amazing, period, but when you factor in what it costs, it's doubly amazing.

The first Fyne speakers I hear were 500-something floorstanders which cost about £1,500. MY first thought was 'these do not sound like £1,500 speakers'.
 
If I have understood your positioning limitation correctly, you are not really driving the whole room - just one of the small legs of a capital T. Plus you say that high sound levels and prodigious bass are not objectives.

I think that a system capable of filling a rectangular room of similar floor area to yours would very likely be overkill in your situation.

Oh, and Duevel Planets don't need a subwoofer for most musical genres; their low frequency output is, if anything, more than sufficient. Hence my use of DSP room correction. I prefer realistic bass.
 
Hi all,

I'll carefully study the last 14 posts or so, without replying singularly for which I apologize. My two feasible options, considering what can be listened to, demoed at home, actually heard, are a more powerful amp or a pair of some BBC design such as LS5/9s. But before committing to anything I'll evaluate all suggestions, for which I am grateful.
M.
 


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