richardg
Admonishtrator
You're twsiting things again and making false accusations. I never said I was OK with anything, did I.
United States of Europe??
- Thread starter FrancisClement
- Start date
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Well denial of the point made, that the UK is indeed failing very many more people as a result of deliberate policy, leaves you where on it exactly?
richardg
Admonishtrator
Nick_G
pfm Member
Rational people with a balanced point of view wouldn't vote for Boris Johnson. It seems balance and reason are being lost to social media-fuelled hysteria, propaganda and toxic rhetoric.
richardg
Admonishtrator
There is a lot of work to be done, we could start by getting rid of Johsnon. That would give things a decent boost right there. Someone that is a bit more diplomatic and more able to see more pieces of the jigsaw at the same time and someone with less ego.
I have no names to suggest, though.
richardg
Admonishtrator
True, how many people voted for the tories though? Less than 15 million?
Nick_G
pfm Member
About 40% of the electorate IIRC. A very scary statistic.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I didn’t mention a failed state, that was you.
richardg
Admonishtrator
It was Decameron, not me.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Agree with you totally, except there is no such thing as ‘public money’ other than that which this government decides to allocate. It can allocate whatever it wants, it is the fact that it decides to allocate it to the rich and withhold it from the poor is the issue that, for me, makes this government morally bankrupt
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
The problem with that is removing Johnson (desirable as that is) leaves those who paid for him still controlling the new head. The policy decisions are not all Johnson's and frankly he is such a weather vane, I doubt he agrees with all of them anyway. Johnson had one ambition that had little to do with policy and was all about getting the PM's job.
The people funding the Tories have an agenda to be delivered, whether that's Sunak, Gove or (FFS Truss) is irrelevent. Meet the new boss....
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I wasn’t responding to Decameron, I was was responding to you where you said there was an official definition of what a failed state is. Dec no doubt has his own opinion of what constitutes a failed state, and I have mine, but I’ve not heard of an official definition.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
You're right of course*, as a member of EFTA Switzerland could join and had signed the EEA agreement but did not to join. But Switzerland has a raft of bilateral agreements that enable participation in the internal market, so the effect is not very different.Switzerland is not an EEA member - it was refused in a 1992 referendum. The vote split was interesting:
With the exception of the two Basel cantons, the French speakers all said yes, the rest said no. What the map doesn't show is Liechtenstein, which voted yes, and is thus in the EEA, which would have pleased Hilti (its biggest employer).
The TV interviews at the time were revelatory - the French speakers saw EEA membership as opening up to the world, the German speakers saw it as letting in more nasty foreign influence (a thankfully dwindling proportion of Swiss see the country as Paradise on Earth, surrounded by greedy, grasping, jealous foreigners).
*I had done a quick check, which showed that Switzerland was indeed a member of the EEA; but that was the European Environment Agency. Doh, should've looked at the title.
https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/eea-member-countries-4
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, the problem isn’t just Johnson. He might be at the head of the corruption and lies, but the body is rotten down to the toes
kensalriser
pfm Member
29%
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I think we can expect a grim finale after Christmas. Bernard Manning, Oswald Mosley, the Duke of Windsor and Mrs.Simpson at a variety performance hosted by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. An interval where the award for most racist ***t is given out by Jim Davidson and Katie Hopkins. Lifetime achievement awards for Jimmy Savile and Margaret Thatcher. A shit buffet and an orchestra sponsored by G4S and Randox Laboratories.
Nick_G
pfm Member
Where is this figure from? I found an Open Democracy article that states that 43.6% of those who voted in December 2019 voted Conservative, i.e. for Boris Johnson:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/boris-johnson-triumphant-victory-or-distorted-electoral-system/
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
^ You said earlier, ‘about 40% of the electorate’. You should know by now pedants abound.
It could be worse. Some folk do these calculations based on the entire population when it suits their point.
Note: The issue I would take with that source you quoted is ‘the coalition’. The LibDems would side with the tories and no party can form a coalition with a nationalist party that wants to break up the UK. The tories would still have won under those circumstances. Very disappointing but I would still prefer PR.
It could be worse. Some folk do these calculations based on the entire population when it suits their point.
Note: The issue I would take with that source you quoted is ‘the coalition’. The LibDems would side with the tories and no party can form a coalition with a nationalist party that wants to break up the UK. The tories would still have won under those circumstances. Very disappointing but I would still prefer PR.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
kensalriser
pfm Member
Pedantry is not the same as accuracy. The electorate and the number of votes cast are two very different things as you can easily see by comparing the percentage of the electorate that voted Tory (29) to the percentage of voters that voted Tory (43). But you knew that.