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Rega P8 vs RP8

It's a whole lot easier to upgrade the whole turntable than doing modifications that are irreversible. Personally, I wouldn't consider any used gear that has been modified with non-original parts as I prefer all stock and standard.

Generally, I agree. It's a personal choice and very much dependent on circumstances. I have a friend who has heavily modified his Planar3 and I have advised against it the whole way. Many buyers do not like modded stuff and you don't get back the money you put in. Also, a deck like the Planer 3 has a performance ceiling so mods can only do so much. Yes, his deck sounds better than it did but it doesn't sound like an LP12 and if you add up the money dropped on the mods he could've bought one. But he asked about the different mods, I gave him honest advice but I'm not his mother!

As far as stripping the paint goes, again it's down to circumstances. Would I do it to a brand new 808? Probably not but I've done it to old RB300s which are a lot less valuable. Basically, I was prepared to accept that I might loose the full value of the arm, I didn't care about resale. I still don't. One of those arms is upstairs in a box. I haven't used it in years but I'm in no hurry to sell it because I know how good it is.

I just rebuilt an LP12 for a friend with some Stack Audio parts. He collected it last night and we were comparing his deck to mine. His has an RB300 I stripped and is Audio Origami rewired. Mine has an RB3000. The decks are not the same spec but I know both well, his deck used to be mine. Bottom line, the stripped RB300 is stunning. I don't know if it's as good as the RB3000 but it's in the ballpark and sounded just as good last night.

I knew how good they were years ago. I went from an Ittok to a stripped and rewired RB300 and I've never considered owning a Linn arm again. Say £160 for a nice RB300, £130 for Audio Origami to rewire it and stripping the paint is a DIY job. So for about £300 you've got a medium mass arm which mixes it with used arms costing three times the price. It's certainly good enough to deal with any MC cart you want to use and not hold the deck back.

I have an original RB300 and an RB808 within a foot of each other and can make a direct comparison..

Now that you point it out it's obvious! ;0) If you look closely there are a lot of differences between the original and current tubes. One of my concerns is that they might be getting too obsessed with weight reduction. If you look at the headshell you'll see that it's thinned down and, importantly, they've made the join between the headshell and the body even less substantial than it was. I can't help but think this is a mistake. Over the years several people have identified this area as weakness, on the original arm! And they've made it even thinner?
 
Generally, I agree. It's a personal choice and very much dependent on circumstances. I have a friend who has heavily modified his Planar3 and I have advised against it the whole way. Many buyers do not like modded stuff and you don't get back the money you put in. Also, a deck like the Planer 3 has a performance ceiling so mods can only do so much. Yes, his deck sounds better than it did but it doesn't sound like an LP12 and if you add up the money dropped on the mods he could've bought one. But he asked about the different mods, I gave him honest advice but I'm not his mother!

As far as stripping the paint goes, again it's down to circumstances. Would I do it to a brand new 808? Probably not but I've done it to old RB300s which are a lot less valuable. Basically, I was prepared to accept that I might loose the full value of the arm, I didn't care about resale. I still don't. One of those arms is upstairs in a box. I haven't used it in years but I'm in no hurry to sell it because I know how good it is.

I just rebuilt an LP12 for a friend with some Stack Audio parts. He collected it last night and we were comparing his deck to mine. His has an RB300 I stripped and is Audio Origami rewired. Mine has an RB3000. The decks are not the same spec but I know both well, his deck used to be mine. Bottom line, the stripped RB300 is stunning. I don't know if it's as good as the RB3000 but it's in the ballpark and sounded just as good last night.

I knew how good they were years ago. I went from an Ittok to a stripped and rewired RB300 and I've never considered owning a Linn arm again. Say £160 for a nice RB300, £130 for Audio Origami to rewire it and stripping the paint is a DIY job. So for about £300 you've got a medium mass arm which mixes it with used arms costing three times the price. It's certainly good enough to deal with any MC cart you want to use and not hold the deck back.



Now that you point it out it's obvious! ;0) If you look closely there are a lot of differences between the original and current tubes. One of my concerns is that they might be getting too obsessed with weight reduction. If you look at the headshell you'll see that it's thinned down and, importantly, they've made the join between the headshell and the body even less substantial than it was. I can't help but think this is a mistake. Over the years several people have identified this area as weakness, on the original arm! And they've made it even thinner?
I have not done the modal analysis of the Rega arm (I assume Rega has). The paint will not shift the main frequencies or the damping ratio more than a couple of percent.

It's the bearing quality that separates Rega arms as the price increases. ABEC is the the standard here.

The idea that one can take a 300, scrape away the paint and get a 1000 is silly.

Please stop encouraging folks to scrape away at their tonearms. Half of them will damage the arm through handling and the other half will contaminate the bearings with paint scrape dust.

Most will end up with a a worse-performing, unsalable tonearm - thanks to you.
 
One of my concerns is that they might be getting too obsessed with weight reduction. If you look at the headshell you'll see that it's thinned down and, importantly, they've made the join between the headshell and the body even less substantial than it was. I can't help but think this is a mistake. Over the years several people have identified this area as weakness, on the original arm! And they've made it even thinner?

Sawing the finger lift off was once fashionable IIRC. Anyway here's Rega on the RB3000 :-

"Each one which is meticulously hand polished (keeping mass to an absolute minimum) and has been completely redesigned to redistribute mass and further reduce stresses and resonances. This advanced design tube increases the stiffness and rigidity of the overall assembly whilst reducing stress on the bearings even further."
 
Sawing the finger lift off was once fashionable IIRC.

Yeah, as someone who uses the finger lift most of the time I never really got that. A major hit to ergonomics for what has to be a very minor lift in performance.

I think it's fair to say that Rega are somewhat obsessed with weight reduction and I'm not sure I agree with all of their reasoning. It does make sense, and I've never liked any of the high-mass turntables I've heard, but I think there are limits and mass of the right kind in the right places is a good thing. Looking at the headshell of the current tube, the join to the arm just looks so thin. The headshell itself has no stiffening web, a feature on just about every other good tonearm. Everything is a compromise but I do wonder if Rega sometimes give weight reduction more credence than it deserves.
 
I have not done the modal analysis of the Rega arm (I assume Rega has). The paint will not shift the main frequencies or the damping ratio more than a couple of percent.

It's the bearing quality that separates Rega arms as the price increases. ABEC is the the standard here.

The idea that one can take a 300, scrape away the paint and get a 1000 is silly.

Please stop encouraging folks to scrape away at their tonearms. Half of them will damage the arm through handling and the other half will contaminate the bearings with paint scrape dust.

Most will end up with a a worse-performing, unsalable tonearm - thanks to you.

Sorry but blaming Mr Pig for being responsible for worse sounding tonearms by making a recommendation on a HiFi forum is laughable.

If someone wants to do it, they can either do it on gut feeling or do some research and then make their own decision. They are all over the age of 21 and presumably capable of making their own mind up. If they go ahead there will be three possible outcomes, the sound is worsened, the sound remains unchanged or the sound is improved. Whichever way it goes, it is the owners decision which he is fully allowed to make and there is no need to blame anyone for the outcome.

If we adopted your blame culture approach, Mr Pig could blame you for preventing people from improving the sound of their tonearm.

There was once a guy on the Naim forum who painted his tonearm bubblegum pink and he was delighted with both the sound and the appearance.

It's all about freedom.
 
Sorry but blaming Mr Pig for being responsible for worse sounding tonearms by making a recommendation on a HiFi forum is laughable.

If someone wants to do it, they can either do it on gut feeling or do some research and then make their own decision. They are all over the age of 21 and presumably capable of making their own mind up. If they go ahead there will be three possible outcomes, the sound is worsened, the sound remains unchanged or the sound is improved. Whichever way it goes, it is the owners decision which he is fully allowed to make and there is no need to blame anyone for the outcome.

If we adopted your blame culture approach, Mr Pig could blame you for preventing people from improving the sound of their tonearm.

There was once a guy on the Naim forum who painted his tonearm bubblegum pink and he was delighted with both the sound and the appearance.

It's all about freedom.
The fourth and very likely outcome is that the arm is phisically damaged and would need to be replaced.

I guess some adults may still need this lesson - so have at it, I guess.
 
The fourth and very likely outcome is that the arm is phisically damaged and would need to be replaced.

I guess some adults may still need this lesson - so have at it, I guess.

And some adults actually know how to do things and aren't maladroits...
 
Sometimes I have the feeling that DimitryZ is trying to get on as many ignore list as possible.:rolleyes:
 
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I don't advocate (or otherwise) stripping paint from your Rega arm, but I did have an RB250 foam filled and that took the sound in the complete wrong direction to my ears; it became soft, bloated and heavy. Audiomods & Michell take the paint off of their Rega tubes and they drill them too. Certainly, my Audiomods is a lot livelier sounding than any of the lower price Rega arms that I have heard. I think that Rega paint them mostly because some of the castings can be a bit rough. As mentioned elsewhere, Audio Origami will strip the paint for you, but I haven't heard one of those tbh & I haven't heard one of the more expensive Rega arms either.
 


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