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re the comments as to mastering:

Must dig out the back catalogue of all of these, especially the vinyl. Too entranced by their earlier stuff to worry about the quality, just loved the music. Have seen some great bands live in my time, who knows maybe the wind and rain helped but that night at Stirling Castle they came across as way 'heavier'? than I'd ever imagined them to be. Helped no doubt by the monstrous PA system they had. My son and a workmate visiting from NZ were less than impressed that I had not got them tickets and turned out there were tickets available at the gate. Wish I'd known as driving the RS home with a broken femur was less than fun and could have been taxied there and back. Policeman offered me jumping the long line to enter as an invalid but managing to keep things going after three years on crutches, did not consider myself an invalid so refused his kind offer and queued up with the rest. Wife was not amused.
 
Tony L said:
One thing to bear in mind with all of these CDs assuming they are original issues (both IRS and Warners) is they are not ‘loud’ at all, I just stuck Out Of Time on after the current Sufjan Stevens album, which is a fairly gentle predominately acoustic/folky thing, and I had to crank the attenuator up three clicks to get anything like the level out of OOT. A lot of people interpret volume changes this extreme as ‘fat’ vs. ‘thin’ etc without realising they are actually listening at less than half the volume! That said OOT isn’t that great, it’s not anything like as bad as some are painting it (and it does seem to vary quite a bit track to track). It’s better than Green though! Just stuck AFTP on and I stand by it being a great recording. I really like it, and I’m listening to it upstairs via the Pass and LS3/5As, so not relying on the huge Tannoys for weight at all.

PS I still much prefer the IRS stuff. I stuck a bit of Document on and that period (Murmur, Life’s Rich Pageant etc) is where all there best songs are IMO. They just stuck way more into a song back then somehow; more interesting changes, better riffs, better lyrics etc. Very ‘80s indie production, but it sounds exactly like prime REM, so who’s complaining? I’m just playing Life’s Rich Pageant now and more happens in the first three songs than the whole of the WEA period! It is great stuff!
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‘Life’s rich..’ is probably their finest album but you are wrong about the WEA period, they recorded some strong records, not up to the IRS era but it still stands up. I think REM are victims of their on greatness & perhaps a bit of snobbery from the likes of me & you?
 
Woodface said:
The Beatles & Steely Dan

Very few if any bands did as many good to great albums as REM. ‘Murmur’ has a strong claim to being the greatest debut ever!
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Glad to see you got it right with The Beatles! I like the odd song by REM but for me they wouldn't be in the top 20 bands even. each to their own etc
 
Woodface said:
‘Life’s rich..’ is probably their finest album but you are wrong about the WEA period, they recorded some strong records, not up to the IRS era but it still stands up.
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It was meant as a light-hearted comment and by the fact I was able to grab the relevant CDs from the shelf suggests I do have them (I’m complete up to New Adventures). I do think they did that thing that so many bands of their time/ilk did when confronted with success in that their songwriting got more simple, they made a given idea last for far longer. I guess proper big money producers tell you to do that as it’s what the market expects. I really enjoyed playing a few tracks from Life’s Rich Pageant last night as it rammed home just what an amazing band they were in their absolute prime; they threw what many bands would consider an albums-worth of changes, bridges, modulation etc into a three minute song back then. Just staggeringly good songwriting IMO. There are some great songs in the WEA era, but they definitely lost that snap and turn on a dime/so many ideas in a short song thing. At their best they really were an object lesson as to how many ideas you can ram into 3 minutes without sounding in anyway forced or pretentious.

PS I always felt Life’s Rich Pageant was their high-watermark too. Certainly my favourite at the time.
 
Tony L said:
It was meant as a light-hearted comment and by the fact I was able to grab the relevant CDs from the shelf suggests I do have them (I’m complete up to New Adventures). I do think they did that thing that so many bands of their time/ilk did when confronted with success in that their songwriting got more simple, they made a given idea last for far longer. I guess proper big money producers tell you to do that as it’s what the market expects. I really enjoyed playing a few tracks from Life’s Rich Pageant last night as it rammed home just what an amazing band they were in their absolute prime; they threw what many bands would consider an albums-worth of changes, bridges, modulation etc into a three minute song back then. Just staggeringly good songwriting IMO. There are some great songs in the WEA era, but they definitely lost that snap and turn on a dime/so many ideas in a short song thing. At their best they really were an object lesson as to how many ideas you can ram into 3 minutes without sounding in anyway forced or pretentious.

PS I always felt Life’s Rich Pageant was their high-watermark too. Certainly my favourite at the time.
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I was also being jocular. My main point is that even if you take the entirety of their IRS label work away they still recorded some really great albums compared to their contemporaries. I really like Green, strong songs & a very ballsy major label debut, even Out of Time has an alternative feel to it; they certainly sounded like no other. Obviously it went down hill after New Adventures in Hifi.
 
JTC said:
I always thought AFTP sounded curiously thin, even though it's detailed enough (and the music is of course superb). I did chance across a remastered version a year or so back which improved things, but it'd be nice to know if there's a definitive 'best version' (pref. digital) to look for.
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I've not heard a digital version that is as good as a rip of Bellman's vinyl.
 
I've just listened to OOT and AFTP again (original CD pressings) as it's been ages since I last played them. Both sound better than I remember, but AFTP is the better production IMO. It commands your attention more, whereas OOT sort of blends into the background. Both are a little light on bass, however this observation is probably exaggerated by the fact that I recently adjusted my listening position such that I'm getting less bass reinforcement from my room modes.
 
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