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re the comments as to mastering:

S

Si74

pfm Member
Just listened to 'Out of Time' utter mince production, followed by 'Automatic for the People' cracking, night and day. Both on cd, can't be arsed to dig out the vinyl to compare. Strange I saw this band one dark wet, windy night long ago when I was on crutches, no fun up the cobbled streets to Stirling Castle. Never thought of them as 'heavy' until that night. The most memorable Concert I have ever been to. Strangely it's not doing a lot for me all these years later, back to ABBA, lol. Next up all the earlier albums that made them one of my fav. bands for a long time but probably resort to Ella F....
Just hit me with 'Man on the Moon', yeah, yeah, yeah...:)
 
"Green" is also a painful recording. The IRS titles are all pretty good, but you can hear them "progressing" toward a sound like "Green" and "Out of Time" as you go forward in time, each more busy, more murky, and more compressed than its predecessor.
 
'Out Of Time' isn't actually that compressed, indeed it's less compressed than 'Automatic For The People', but there's a vagueness to the production that makes it a bit underwhelming to listen to. TBH I wouldn't classify any REM album as 'audiophile material', as great as their music maybe be.
 
The Out Of Time CD is not good. The EU DMM1 vinyl sounds much better but this is no audiophile production. Chris Bellman did a recent Automatic For The People vinyl release and that sounds great.
 
I always thought AFTP sounded curiously thin, even though it's detailed enough (and the music is of course superb). I did chance across a remastered version a year or so back which improved things, but it'd be nice to know if there's a definitive 'best version' (pref. digital) to look for.
 
JTC said:
I always thought AFTP sounded curiously thin, even though it's detailed enough (and the music is of course superb). I did chance across a remastered version a year or so back which improved things, but it'd be nice to know if there's a definitive 'best version' (pref. digital) to look for.
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It is thin and over-bright too, such as shame because it's a monster of an album (pardon the pun). It's not a disaster but it should have been so much better. I only have AFTP (and OoT) on CD so it could be the digital transfers (assuming it was recorded to analogue tape) but CD was by far the leading format by that time.
 
A couple of decades ago I used to use C Rea CD's to gauge how a system would sound with s*** recordings.

He never disappointed.
 
I think you need to view REM as a transition from the IRS days. I really like the early albums, they capture the sound of single coil guitar pickups through Fender valve amps very well retaining the bite that so often gets smoothed out. I also liked the vocals being something you had to seek out rather than being up front in your face like a pop record. Once they moved to WEA they spent far longer achieving far less to my mind. It is a very long time since I played Green or Out Of Time, but Automatic For The People is a very good recording and a nice sounding CD. Actually one of the first two CDs I ever bought (the other being The Orb’s Journey Beyond The Ultraworld) when I bought my first CD player (a RCD965BX). It shouldn’t sound hard, harsh or thin on a good system IMO. Certainly crisp, and the guitars and snare have some bite, but it’s nicely recorded. Again it sounds like the guitar sound it is. REM aren’t some bland AOR band, they always had a real edge to them. As such I kind of view complaints in the same light as someone noticing say Husker Dü are a wall of fuzz! It is what it is, all is right with the world. On a well balanced system (i.e. one that sounds natural/right on classical, jazz etc) it sounds fine IMO.
 
Tony L said:
Automatic For The People is a very good recording and a nice sounding CD <snip> It shouldn’t sound hard, harsh or thin on a good system IMO.
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But it does. Not harsh or hard, but it lacks weight. Or at least my CD of it does. Not unlistenably so, by any means of course.
 
Funny, just stick any of these on in the car or on earbuds and you'll probably just really enjoy the great music.
 
JTC said:
But it does. Not harsh or hard, but it lacks weight. Or at least my CD of it does. Not unlistenably so, by any means of course.
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I wonder if the US vinyl is the best sounding way to hear this album.
 
RoA said:
A couple of decades ago I used to use C Rea CD's to gauge how a system would sound with s*** recordings.

He never disappointed.
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Really? I'm not much of a fan of Chris Rea's music but I often reached for Auberge or Road To Hell when I wanted to impress visitors. IMO the aforementioned albums have pretty decent production values (as far as mainstream blues rock / pop rock is concerned).
 
Well, I have original early presses of all of the above & they sound great. Green is a very dynamic record & underrated IMV. I don’t understand how a decent system could not render them enjoyable. New Adventures in HiFi sounds great to my ears also but apparently the new version is ‘better’, who cares?
 
Tony L said:
On a well balanced system (i.e. one that sounds natural/right on classical, jazz etc) it sounds fine IMO.
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I am listening to both AFTP and OOT right now to see. Sounds really good on my system here too. eg, Losing My Religion - really spacious sound - great stereo mix on the two mandolins, nice underlay of orchestration from mid-point giving the mix real weight. Crisp drums in the middle of the mix. Hand claps quietly in the percussive mix, sounding further away than the drums. Not sure what people are hearing wrong here. (I am listening to an original 90s CD - maybe it has been remastered and brick walled?)
 
Night swimming is both the best track by far and the best recorded track. They are one of those bands/acts (Springsteen another) that seem to just go on and on and quickly get boring if I attempt to listen to a whole album.
 
One thing to bear in mind with all of these CDs assuming they are original issues (both IRS and Warners) is they are not ‘loud’ at all, I just stuck Out Of Time on after the current Sufjan Stevens album, which is a fairly gentle predominately acoustic/folky thing, and I had to crank the attenuator up three clicks to get anything like the level out of OOT. A lot of people interpret volume changes this extreme as ‘fat’ vs. ‘thin’ etc without realising they are actually listening at less than half the volume! That said OOT isn’t that great, it’s not anything like as bad as some are painting it (and it does seem to vary quite a bit track to track). It’s better than Green though! Just stuck AFTP on and I stand by it being a great recording. I really like it, and I’m listening to it upstairs via the Pass and LS3/5As, so not relying on the huge Tannoys for weight at all.

PS I still much prefer the IRS stuff. I stuck a bit of Document on and that period (Murmur, Life’s Rich Pageant etc) is where all there best songs are IMO. They just stuck way more into a song back then somehow; more interesting changes, better riffs, better lyrics etc. Very ‘80s indie production, but it sounds exactly like prime REM, so who’s complaining? I’m just playing Life’s Rich Pageant now and more happens in the first three songs than the whole of the WEA period! It is great stuff!
 
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