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Linn LP12 vs Digital

Mr Pig said:
Not really. More like a wide range of turntables which happen to share the same architecture and basic appearance. There is possibly more variation in sound quality across all the permutations of LP12 than there is in all digital front ends!
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100% agree Colin about the LP12 and the endless permutations available.I can't think of too many decks with 3 levels of sub chassis and levels of arms...then you have other manufacturers arms.
Not to mention cartridges and of cause power supplies. Its a real kaleidoscope of options.But the basic deck without arm - cart is the foundation.

I am in a nice place as have a Akurate level LP12 but I am really enjoy CD's on a Pioneer PDS 801 CD player which I brought in 1993 and sounds really,really nice.

I really concur with Del Monaco in what he says about the performance and that's what really speaks to you.I think if you have that source - synergy with amp and speakers your there.My CD player cost £300 where the LP12 is maybe £ 5000.

I can get touched by The performance on both formats.LP12 doe's sound beautiful though.
 
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Here in the Pacific NW of the US, it's pretty hard to even find high end TTs. LP12s are pretty ubiquitous, others not at all and when you do see them 2nd hand you have to wonder if they're representative, etc.. I would love to hear others, but just haven't really had the opportunity.

I've had a ton of fun upgrading my LP12 - it was cheap at entry, and gotten better every step of the way...didn't have the coin at first, just done upgrades as funds permitted, every step better...sure has worked well for me. And what a neat set up - sort of like a British 911, just keeps on trucking. I love it. And it sounds fabulous.
 
Radiohead99 said:
I’m seeking advise on LP12/turntable upgrade. I’m new to analog (and to this forum). Linn LP12 is my first turntable. It’s a brand new Majik with the new Kore and Lingo 4 upgrade. It has the new Karousel bearing, Krane arm, adikt cart.

I’ve a DIY music server which would compete with USD $10K commercial offering. My DAC is Holo Spring2 - a $2.2K mid level. I’m quite skilled with building music server and spent a lot of time improving it. I was very happy with the sound of my digital chain.

However, the new LP12 right out of the box sounded better than my digital on 70% of the music. I was floored! I started buying vinyl like a mad man.

The story takes a dramatic turn when I borrowed a Lampizator TRP DAC from a friend. With Lampi, my digital starting to sound quite a bit better than my LP12.

The areas where I think LP12 is equal (or sometimes little better ) than my digital is:

- Macro dynamics

- Detail

- Bass

- voice reproduction

But other areas where the digital with Lampi sounds quite a bit better than LP12:

- Transparency (I can hear deeper into the recording)

- Much more open midrange

- Airy and silky highs

- Better micro dynamics (LP12 sounds a bit flat in comparison on busy music)

- More agile and lighter on its feet (while never sounding thin or harsh)

I am willing to spend money on LP12 upgrades. But is it possible that LP12 (or suspended turntable for that matter) will never sound that open, uncolored, agile, and airy? I think my LP12 sounds very organic and musical. But the midrange thickness is pervasive regardless of the recording and its flat sounding on busy music is the biggest issue I want to improve on.

What LP12 upgrade I should aim first so that it can sound open and airy? Is the Radikal + MC cart will get me there? Or Keel+Ekos SE+ MC cart would be enough? I can go all the way up to Klimax if that s what it takes. But it’d be an expensive experiment if it doesn’t work out.

Would I better served by changing turntable to a direct drive type like Technics upper models 1000R?

Your opinions are most welcome!
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Hi -

You have a solid deck to build from. If it were me, I think I'd look at a better tonearm - used Ekos if you can find one in good shape. And I'd upgrade the cartridge - for whatever reason, I've never been a fan of the Adikt. I use an Audio-Technica OC9-XML, which is about $550 USD and to me significantly better than the Adikt or the other MM cartridges I've tried. If you want something better, an AT ART-9 or DynaVector XX2 would be well worth trying. If you want to go past that, then go for the Keel/Ekos.

With a Lingo 4 and a Kore, I'd do the arm/cartridge first, hence the above.
 
Radiohead99 said:
Very helpful reply. Thank you Bob! Should I skip the Akito? I am also curious if the Krane arm is good enough for MC cart upgrade.
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Hope it helps!

I would skip the Akito. And I can't say if the Krane is good enough for an MC - my dealer (who I used to work for) said the Krane was an OK arm, but he'd upgrade it before putting a MC in it.
 
No matter how good your TT/cart are your phono stage provides more amplification than your amplifier, yet few even mention them.
 
I'm using a newest model Audio Note M3 phono. I recently bought a PS Audio Stellar (which supposed to punch above its price class) in anticipation of MC cart support.
 
James said:
I have a near full fat LP12 that sounds quite sublime. I hate to think what all the bits and upgrades over the last three decades cost me. It's certainly magnitudes more than I paid for my streamer. Yet, I enjoy both set ups very much. The bottom line is digital and analogue are both valid media, and both can sound very good indeed. But a really good TT will cost more than an equally good digital / streaming solution.
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I’m presuming you refer to a Bluesound 2i as being your digital side of things, if so, then that’s very heartening to hear that it stands up well against your NFF LP12.
 
misterdog said:
No matter how good your TT/cart are your phono stage provides more amplification than your amplifier, yet few even mention them.
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The hierarchy for LP12 is bearing / subchassis / motor / arm / cart / phono amp.

GIGO.
 
Mr Pig said:
Not really. More like a wide range of turntables which happen to share the same architecture and basic appearance. There is possibly more variation in sound quality across all the permutations of LP12 than there is in all digital front ends!
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One would expect that. The particular record being played makes a difference too :)

Tim
 
James said:
The hierarchy for LP12 is bearing / subchassis / motor / arm / cart / phono amp.

GIGO.
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Which in my humble experience is a load of bollox, only having bought, sold, built, modified, serviced and set up dozens of the things.
 
Si74 said:
Which in my humble experience is a load of bollox, only having bought, sold, built, modified, serviced and set up dozens of the things.
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Thank you for sharing your opinion. Given what I'm looking to achieve (better microdynamics, open and agile midrange, airy highs) - what should be next upgrade? To recap my LP12 is the latest akurate spec except arm is Krane and cart is adikt.
 
Radiohead99 said:
better microdynamics, open and agile midrange, airy highs
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This ^ is a good moving coil cartridge. And to get a good moving coil cartridge to work, you need a gooder arm. It really is that simple.

Yes, there are loads of things you can do to the old Linn to improve it this way or that but you've been very specific about what you want, which is great. And a good MC is going to give you exactly that. Provide you fit it to an arm which will let it give its best or close enough to it.

Skip the Akito, yes. It's a budget arm at an inflated price. Do you see anyone other than Linn fanboys talking about them? The same can be said about the Ittok and Ekos but they are better arms, and look better too. But the best value option is the PU7. Costs about the same as new Akito, performs about the same as a new Ekos SE! Poor Johnnie can hardly keep up with demand. In his opinion it's the best arm in the world. I don't know if that's true but it's in that conversation. The Akito isn't.

There are other arm options but Linn have done their usual and made going off the reservation difficult. You need to change the sub-chassis if you want to fit an arm that's not Linn geometry. If you're prepared to do that the Aro is a silky smooth sex machine. The Nima is probably close for a lot less money. Or the RB2000/RB3000 probably straddle the gap between the Aro and an Ittok/Ekos.

Pick and arm then a cartridge and honestly, you'll be happy.
 
Mr Pig said:
This ^ is a good moving coil cartridge. And to get a good moving coil cartridge to work, you need a gooder arm. It really is that simple.

Pick and arm then a cartridge and honestly, you'll be happy.
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Thank you for your recommendation. Would the PU7 be compatible with Keel if I upgrade in the sub chassis in the future?
 
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