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Soundstage

Billsie said:
Thanks for the heads up and for the link.
Yes, I had thought about using REW to give me more info. (It would be a completely new experience for me) Am I correct in thinking you’re a Lyngdorf fan (apologies if I’m wrong)? Have you used Room Perfect and if so did it help soundstage or just bass?
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I am a fan of Lyngdorf Room Correction and DSP/EQ in general.

With normal passive box speakers the Lyngdorf 2170 and 3400 integrated amps with their with Room Perfect made a very noticeable difference, for the better. I made a mistake and traded CM8 for 804D2 and hated the 804 in the new room, there was hardly and bass, Room Perfect made a real go at sorting that out. It improves bass, the top end to a lesser degree and adds space and air to the soundstage, basically makes it easier to hear what is going on in the music.

I lost my dedicated AV room when we finally moved out to the new place, so now I have to use the lounge as the AV room, I had a full Kef Ref surround package and when it was setup in the new room without room perfect the Kef Ref 205 were really poor, when previously they had been stellar so I knew what they should/could sound like, after running RP they sounded miles better, more or less the same as before even though this room is quite a lot smaller and new build cement floor not Victorian suspended wood/damped.

Now that I have Logans with built in Anthem room correction for their 2 x 10" Subs I've taken the opportunity to get a big Luxman Class A and just today after 3 years of owning the 3400 and 10 months swithering/holding onto it, it got sold. The Lyngdorf RP didn't add much once the Logan DSP was dialled in, most of the issues I had were bass related and I fancied a full on change. The Lux has brought a different presentation, especially to the midrange/voices, took a bit of getting used to but after swapping back to the 3400 I missed it so the Lux went in and has stayed in so far.
 
I'm always swapping my speakers as I have a habit of buying them, but not getting around to selling any. I recently decided to try some Peak Consult speakers I had for tv duties as I could never get them to sound any good in the usual main system speaker positions. They always sounded dull with a flat presentation and rubbish soundstage. My room is approx 17ft by 10ft and I listen with the speakers slightly right of the middle long wall. Being a narrow room obviously limits how far away from the rear wall I can have them, but I decided to pull them out to almost half way so they were nearly in the middle of the room, not practical I know, but the difference in presentation was miles better than I've ever had them before. I should say I have DIY room treatment on the walls and ceiling which has helped a lot, however the speaker placement really opened up the soundstage and gave it height, depth and width. I always had width and some height but never depth.
What I'm really saying is you really have to experiment to find the spot where the speakers will open up, though be prepared for that spot to be not where you want it to be, but it gives you an idea what they can sound like and what you're prepared to tolerate.
 
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Thanks AA and Rick_F, very helpful advice and gives me food for thought.
Just listening to some Keith Jarrett with Charlie Haden and it sounds as good as I’ve heard it. I probably will measure the room at some stage (I’ve just retired and have plenty of time to tinker) and if problems are highlighted I’ll have to decide about either using convolution filters in Roon or trialling an all in one solution from Lyngdorf or NAD.

Thanks to all for your advice!
 
Soundstage tends to be almost entirely speaker dependent. Placement and room treatments are the best way to play with this.
 
irb said:
That's interesting. What aspect of soundstage improved, would you say? Width?

(In my experience, speakers firing straight down the room tend to create a wider stage, for the obvious reason that there's increased reflection from side walls, and decreased reflection from the rear wall. Hence toed-in peakers often reduce the sense of width but enhance the sense of depth.)
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I much prefer to have my speakers without any toe in.
Not only does it sound better but looks better as well.
I prefer a wider soundstage and less depth.
 
I’ve now got mine with about 10 degrees of toe in and it seems to produce a decent balance of depth and width. Time will tell whether I get the urge to try moving them again!
 
Curtis said:
I much prefer to have my speakers without any toe in.
Not only does it sound better but looks better as well.
I prefer a wider soundstage and less depth.
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As it happens, I'm completely the opposite. I always found depth most important. I tend to have the speakers as far apart as I can get them (within reason), with lots of toe-in. It just goes to show how important personal taste is.
 
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I have been messing about for 3 days now making very small adjustments to the Toe-In on my speakers.
I picked a few songs with female vocal and piano, vocal centred, and kept moving the Toe-In, out.
Then I put on some mono recordings and again adjusted to the sound.
Now the speakers are still toed in, but far less.
The soundstage (which was nice anyways) has expanded noticeably without disjointing the music.

Not sure I have completely finished with the micro movements, but on the whole very pleasing.

Note: The speakers are spiked. The spikes are in champagne corks with felt pads between the cork and smooth marble slabs. The speakers can be moved on the marble with very little effort, they just slide. (my idea of de-coupling)
Without this setup it would be a pain to move the speakers by 1cm increments.

One of the easiest ways to convince myself that my Stereo sounds a bit better, therefore I should play everything :)

Like I need an excuse.
 
An extra oddness.

Now that the speakers (for the moment) sound lovely from a soundscape point of view, the music sounds louder!

I keep finding that I am turning the volume down, as it is plenty.

Odd to me, I am sure it is obvious that it will make the music sound at its loudest when in the best position?

Or is this tripe?
 
Big Tabs said:
An extra oddness.

Now that the speakers (for the moment) sound lovely from a soundscape point of view, the music sounds louder!

I keep finding that I am turning the volume down, as it is plenty.

Odd to me, I am sure it is obvious that it will make the music sound at its loudest when in the best position?

Or is this tripe?
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Not at all. If the speakers are badly placed and creating lots of reflections it sounds muddy and you switch the volume up to compensate.
 
Try pulling out the listening position (LP) at least 1m into the room and seeing the effect. LP on/near the wall is usually very detrimental to sound stage.

Depending on the room, wall construction etc. you may find this pairs well with speakers against wall behind them, or pulled out somewhat (up to 60cm from front baffle). No large objects (TV, rack, fireplace, furniture) near the speakers when set back.
 
darrenyeats said:
Try pulling out the listening position (LP) at least 1m into the room and seeing the effect. LP on/near the wall is usually very detrimental to sound stage.

Depending on the room, wall construction etc. you may find this pairs well with speakers against wall behind them, or pulled out somewhat (up to 60cm from front baffle). No large objects (TV, rack, fireplace, furniture) near the speakers when set back.
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There isn’t the room in the room.

Nothing between the speakers and no coffee table…

The sitting position is pulled out 2’ from the back wall already.


speakers approx 2’ out from their wall. About 3’ + from the sides.

anymore would offend the eyes, and be a bit much for my modest hifi room
 
It's not to use it necessarily, it's to try.

If it works then the conclusion may be your room is too small to have the speakers on the long wall.
 
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