Iain Docherty
pfm Member
In the late 90s I had a part time job in a dealership that sold Linn, Pink Triangle and Michell.
New Klimax LP12
- Thread starter boon
- Start date
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
Total rubbish,my own dealer who has sold well tempered, pink triangle , roksan, top end Rega and manticore against linn.
John
Rack’em Up!
We were in North America and in the time frame I was involved there was no such thing. Perhaps later or in certain markets, but not here.That you were aware of perhaps?Working in a Linn shop is a for a couple of years as what, junior sales? The guy I speak of had 30 years experience in Hifi shops, his last 10 years or so as a manager in a Hifi shop owned by the same guy that owned the Linn/Naim shop but set up to sell other Hifi that he could not sell in the Linn shop, true story, like it or not.
I became friends with him and after he retired and the shop closed he told me why the Linn shop did not stock SME, Michell, Nottingham Analogue, Roksan, Voyd or any of the other turntables available that I would've have liked to try, they weren't allowed too if they wanted to keep the Linn dealership.
A dealer cannot stock everything. It is up to them what they stock, it is perfectly valid to have a well judged limited range. Too much choice leads to paralysis.
BTW, this rather fine dealer give a lie to the nonsense spoken on here:
https://dnaaudio.co.uk/product-category/turntables/
BTW, this rather fine dealer give a lie to the nonsense spoken on here:
https://dnaaudio.co.uk/product-category/turntables/
Darren L
Egalitarian
No nonsense @Woodface or rubbish @david ellwood Linn & Rega only in the only Linn dealer in this country and its always been that way and pre 95 Rega only made 2 turntables so the only other turntable they stocked was a LP12 what the reason is for that or whether what I was told is true or not I'll never know ( neither will any of the rest of you)
https://www.lyrichifi.com/2013-06-20-08-46-34/category/40-turntables.html
https://www.lyrichifi.com/2013-06-20-08-46-34/category/40-turntables.html
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Tony L
Administrator
There are two pretty distinct types of dealer IME; those who only stock their own personal choices and as such sell a very limited but tightly focused range, and those who attempt to present the customer with a wide and diverse range of alternates and allow them to find their own taste. Both can be very successful as some punters like to be led, others really don’t. Obviously there is a higher stock cost to the latter, especially if you attempt to stock the highly transient world of magazine raves etc, but I’ve certainly seen both types over the years.
This may be a lot more true of the ‘80-90s than now, I’m very out of touch. I suspect the high st has changed beyond recognition since then and hi-fi dealers are in general a rarer breed.
This may be a lot more true of the ‘80-90s than now, I’m very out of touch. I suspect the high st has changed beyond recognition since then and hi-fi dealers are in general a rarer breed.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
There's a hi-fi shop not too far away from me over in Hillington called Bollo and they stock turntables from only two manufacturers as far as I can tell: Linn and Project; all the Linn decks are expensive, obviously, and while some of the Project decks are fairly expensive, they also stock a number of budget Project decks. They also sell B&O, Devialet, Chord Electronics and so on, but when it comes to turntables it's either Linn or Project. The guys seem friendly enough and all that, and I like their listening room, but it does seem to be a modern hi-fi shop focussed on stylised hi-fi - you don't really see racks of boxes, just sleek and modern-looking hi-fi stuff. I like the clean aesthetics of some of their stock and the shop looks pretty clean and contemporary as well. But it's quite different from shops like Loud & Clear who sell a broader range of British hi-fi.
I'm not denigrating Bollo in any, shape or form, but it seems more like a high-class version of Richer Sounds than a traditional hi-fi shop, and that's cool by me
I'm not denigrating Bollo in any, shape or form, but it seems more like a high-class version of Richer Sounds than a traditional hi-fi shop, and that's cool by me
boon
pfm Member
For all the LP12 upgrade bashers who slag and slate this path chosen by others, the chance to get back to basics appears to be available in a new alternative at a reasonable cost.
Therefore all the ‘I sold it because the original warmth and tone had disappeared’ brigade can have that old feeling back, along with the ‘aftermarket upgrade purist, who would love to have a good secondhand LP12, if only they could find one to build on’ can enjoy this outstanding deck once more.https://www.billyvee.co.uk/turntables/linn-lp12-turntable-deck-only-611-107-1525.php
ps this link is current.
Therefore all the ‘I sold it because the original warmth and tone had disappeared’ brigade can have that old feeling back, along with the ‘aftermarket upgrade purist, who would love to have a good secondhand LP12, if only they could find one to build on’ can enjoy this outstanding deck once more.https://www.billyvee.co.uk/turntables/linn-lp12-turntable-deck-only-611-107-1525.php
ps this link is current.
John
Rack’em Up!
So what is your point? Lyric Hi Fi product range looks perfectly fine with me. Great products where you can put together a system to fit all price points.
Look at the range of TTs stocked by DNA, fail to see how Linn are limiting who they stock.
jimification
pfm Member
It's quite common in the retail industry for some of the larger brands to encourage sales by offering lower trade prices to dealers who sell more of their product. Trade price tiers for every single product are dependent on the store's annual turnover of that brand...so a dealer that sells £30,000 worth of brand X good in a year will pay a higher trade price (and hence make less profit) for every item than a dealer that sells £100,000 per year.
It therefore benefits the store to sell more products from that one big brand and pushes retail towards fewer, larger brands and less competition. Brands usually leave shops free to sell whichever other brands they want but there is definitely a financial incentive to sell the main big brand with the aim of decreasing the trade price band the store buys within. I have no idea if this happens in hifi but it's certainly common in other sectors.
As far as price fixing goes, in my youth I worked in a store that carried Oakley sunglasses. You were not allowed to discount Oakley EVER. If they catch you, you will lose that brand. Yes, that's illegal but that's absolutely how it was and I think it's still pretty widespread. Fender were busted fairly recently for price fixing in the UK and were fined £4.5 million.
It therefore benefits the store to sell more products from that one big brand and pushes retail towards fewer, larger brands and less competition. Brands usually leave shops free to sell whichever other brands they want but there is definitely a financial incentive to sell the main big brand with the aim of decreasing the trade price band the store buys within. I have no idea if this happens in hifi but it's certainly common in other sectors.
As far as price fixing goes, in my youth I worked in a store that carried Oakley sunglasses. You were not allowed to discount Oakley EVER. If they catch you, you will lose that brand. Yes, that's illegal but that's absolutely how it was and I think it's still pretty widespread. Fender were busted fairly recently for price fixing in the UK and were fined £4.5 million.
Tony L
Administrator
Any idea what you actually get for that money, i.e. is the most basic motor and PSU included? I’m curious if you can even get the equivalent of a simple ‘red button’ pre-Valhalla PSU and 24 pole synchronous motor any more? All the fancy expensive ones have DC motors now don’t they?
PS Absolutely not knocking it. If you can still get a complete LP12 (minus arm) that goes round at 33rpm for under £2k it isn’t a bad deal IMO.
Darren L
Egalitarian
In the context of the original post the point was pre 95 they did not offer any choices other than the LP12 if you wanted to upgrade from a Rega Planar 3.
Darren L
Egalitarian
Yes, DNA is not in N.Ireland so I wouldn't have been visiting England for a demonstration or too buy hifi in 95 or even now and obviously the point was made in a historical context, pre 95, really I was only relaying the information I was given to why there was no choice back then. It may have been true or not true but the fact remains the Linn dealer offered no choice other than a LP12 if someone wanted to upgrade from a Rega 3.
I'll leave it at that.
Based on the current price list the LP12 'mechanics' cost £1,710 to which you'd need to add the Majik sub-chassis and PSU at £330 and £380 respectively. You'll also need an armboard and base for another £43 and £140 respectively. That gets you to £2,603 for a complete deck minus arm. And that is with the very basic PSU (with which is the modern equivalent of the 'red button' and an AC motor). One thing I'm unclear about is whether the Majik PSU includes the motor. Alternatively the complete Majik specification deck is £3,450.
John
Rack’em Up!
That would be the Basik power supply which wouldn’t be included in this stripped down deck as that would have to be discarded if the customer was building an Accurate level deck which uses a different power supply and motor,
I’m thinking the base is not included either. Likely plinth, top plate, crossbrace, dust cover, Karousel bearing, outer platter. suspension parts.
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You are talking about nearly 30 years ago when Rega would have had a narrower range. I seem to recall my local dealer stocking the Rega P9 when it cam out, they also had Linn & Naim. This thread is talking about the new LP12 Klimax upgrades, I fail to understand most of the 'viewpoints' on here, sorry.
Darren L
Egalitarian
@Woodface if you actually read what I wrote in post #191 in reply to your post #185 you'll read I was relaying information I had been told of what I'd personally consider an underhand or dishonest practice during the 80's and 90's, so yes I was talking about nearly 30 years ago and yes I was questioning their alleged dishonest manipulation. You don’t have to believe it, maybe I was lied too.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
So I spent a very pleasurable couple of hours with David at The Sound Organisation in York, listening to the difference the new Radical makes to the LP12.
I was not expecting anything like the level of improvement but within seconds it was clear that this was much more than a small incremental improvement.
The rhythmical structure of the music is rock solid, instruments are more tangible and the timing between is so simple and easy to follow.
Bass guitar is faster and more nimble, easier to follow and resolves more notes.
Id rate this as a similar level of improvement as the Karousel and I suspect the Radikal 2 has been developed specifically to exploit the attributes of the new bearing.
This year’s Christmas present to self!
I was not expecting anything like the level of improvement but within seconds it was clear that this was much more than a small incremental improvement.
The rhythmical structure of the music is rock solid, instruments are more tangible and the timing between is so simple and easy to follow.
Bass guitar is faster and more nimble, easier to follow and resolves more notes.
Id rate this as a similar level of improvement as the Karousel and I suspect the Radikal 2 has been developed specifically to exploit the attributes of the new bearing.
This year’s Christmas present to self!