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Luxembourg leading the way

Don’t hold your breath to see it happen elsewhere, organised crime has almost unlimited funds and politicians are cheap to buy as are newspaper reporters and editors, the banks make serious money laundering the proceeds, it will stay illegal in most places.
I see over the last twenty years legalisation in pockets round the world, modification of laws and penalties. I am therefore much more positive that it will continue in this direction. More countries will follow, albeit slowly. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

But I don't understand this in the Guardian:

"Under a softening of the law, however, the consumption and transport of a quantity of up to 3 grams will no longer be considered a criminal offence, but classified as misdemeanour.

Fines would be reduced to as little as €25 for possession of under 3 grams, down from €251 to €2,500 today."

So how legal have they actually made it in Luxembourg!
 
If I'm not mistaken in Italy you can grow the stuff for personal use, and if the police catch you with a small quantity of grass or hash that too is considered for personal use and there is no prosecution.
 
I see over the last twenty years legalisation in pockets round the world, modification of laws and penalties. I am therefore much more positive that it will continue in this direction. More countries will follow, albeit slowly. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

But I don't understand this in the Guardian:

"Under a softening of the law, however, the consumption and transport of a quantity of up to 3 grams will no longer be considered a criminal offence, but classified as misdemeanour.

Fines would be reduced to as little as €25 for possession of under 3 grams, down from €251 to €2,500 today."

So how legal have they actually made it in Luxembourg!

It does seem a bit unclear. My understanding from the article is that they're legalising it to be homegrown but not mass produced.

Perhaps they're wary of creating a tourist market? Amsterdam has repeatedly made noises about limiting sales in coffee shops to residents.
 
I think Luxembourg's legalisation is the way forward, freedom for the adult individual to grow a herb in their own home and at their own expense.
Your suggestion would mean the Cannibis would be need to grown on a large scale (capitalist) and sold by whom ? (another capitalist) and more taxes paid to an already corrupt government, which would then mean the Black Market would still be cultivating and selling as no doubt it would be cheaper per gram/ounce than the hypothetical cannabis products sold in the hypothetical dispensaries. Making tobacco illegal would only encourage more black market tobacco products being sold illegally which kind of defeats the purpose.
All of these black market products, whether weed, cigarettes, rolling tobacco, puppies all feed huge amounts of money into highly organised dangerous criminal gangs that are involved in modern slavery and sex trafficking, ie really f**King bad dangerous people.
Tobacco smoking (no matter how dangerous) and alcohol ( the biggest problem narcotic) consumption will never be made illegal as it already is a large part of the established market.
Tobacco is not illegal in Canada.
And you reckon that those growing it won’t sell/barter to those who don’t grow it but want some? That creates a market and a price (capitalism). And that will likely lead to black market. Make it widely available, in a controlled way, and will reduce the volume of black market stuff.
 
It does seem a bit unclear. My understanding from the article is that they're legalising it to be homegrown but not mass produced.

Perhaps they're wary of creating a tourist market? Amsterdam has repeatedly made noises about limiting sales in coffee shops to residents.
Big step, though. Onwards! I'm no longer a joint smoker but always saw cannabis as less damaging to society than alcohol.
 
And you reckon that those growing it won’t sell/barter to those who don’t grow it but want some? That creates a market and a price (capitalism). And that will likely lead to black market. Make it widely available, in a controlled way, and will reduce the volume of black market stuff.

No for the most part I think if made legal those that want some will grow for their own consumption and those that have no interest will not, of course there will always be exceptions.
 
And you reckon that those growing it won’t sell/barter to those who don’t grow it but want some? That creates a market and a price (capitalism). And that will likely lead to black market. Make it widely available, in a controlled way, and will reduce the volume of black market stuff.
Certainly. I used to have a room. I could get 20oz off one hydroponic plant. So that's 80 over 4 plants, 3 times a year, 4 if you are a grafter. That could be 360 oz per year, x 150 an oz gives potenial income of over 50 grand a year out of a room the police allow. So there is no risk at the growing stage, only the selling stage. The street price will come down but note that for a while when I was growing it went from a class b drug to class c but the prices still kept rising and then it went back to c and they rose again, predictably. So there is little chance in my opinion that this allowance by the government in Luxembourg will kill off the illegal market.

I think the growing should only be allowed in soil and only with led lights, not sodium. And only 1 plant. That would bring yields down to 6oz per plant probably, 24oz over a year. And far less electricity burnt.
 
Depending on your address police attitudes vary wildly, so much depends on the chief constables attitudes.

Yes, I believe that is correct, Prof Green did a series of programmes covering modern topics that challenge today's society, child poverty, cannabis, etc.
In the episode about cannabis use it stated that the Chief Constable of the Durham police force 'allowed' individuals to grow up to 9 plants for their own consumption.
 
And you reckon that those growing it won’t sell/barter to those who don’t grow it but want some? That creates a market and a price (capitalism). And that will likely lead to black market. Make it widely available, in a controlled way, and will reduce the volume of black market stuff.
I think you have to make changes here gradually - squeeze out the dealers. Otherwise, all that will happen is that commercial growers (farmers) will get their crops raided by drug gangs on a regular basis and people will get hurt.
 
It does seem a bit unclear. My understanding from the article is that they're legalising it to be homegrown but not mass produced.
Correct. If you’re in possession you have to prove that it’s your own plant, not bought on the black market. In a small country like Luxembourg, with a small easily identifed population, that’s probably do-able, but it wouldn’t be possible in the UK.

Perhaps they're wary of creating a tourist market? Amsterdam has repeatedly made noises about limiting sales in coffee shops to residents.
They’d go out of business if they did that: locals wouldn’t be seen dead in those places.

My personal opinion of cannabis is that I don’t like how it gets kids into smoking tobacco. This may be a function of it being a black-market product: you need to get the biggest value into the smallest volume, because that makes it easier to distribute secretly. But that means the weed/resin has to be cut before use, and it invariably gets cut with tobacco - a highly addictive drug with serious health implications.

I know three people who started smoking cigarettes only after smoking joints at parties. So yeah, it’s a gateway drug, but the gates aren’t where you think.

I wouldn’t mind derestriction of the rules, but at the same time I’d like to see the rules on nicotine vapes considerably tightened: these are a scourge in secondary schools, the producers deliberately market them to kids, and here in Ireland they’re responsible for the first rise in teenage smoking for three decades.
 
Coffee shops in Amsterdam often provide a herbal smoking mixture to avoid the use of tobacco - in fact by law I think they have to be non (tobacco) smoking.
Yes, they did this after the smoking ban came into force in Amsterdam - the prohibition is on tobacco smoking only.

My point about tobacco addiction was about smoking at home and parties, not in licensed locations. It also works both ways - a friend who gave up cigarettes said he now smoked a whole lot less weed too. He realised after giving up the cigarettes that most of his previous desire to smoke cannabis was actually built on top of a craving for nicotine.
 
..and be careful what you wish for: excellent article in Der Spiegel this last week, for those who can access it:

https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...terror-a-4c064859-9faf-495f-b1f7-c74900910568

The distribution and manufacture of recreational drugs is still illegal in Holland, given that the only way to increase your market share is through violence which is what is seem in Mexico and Columbia where the cartels rise to prominence through ever increasing escalation of violence it’s not surprising that in a globalised world it starts happening in Europe as well. In the U.K. the Albanians have taken over a lot of the drug trade, largely because they are much more violent than the previous groups.
 
Yes, they did this after the smoking ban came into force in Amsterdam - the prohibition is on tobacco smoking only.

My point about tobacco addiction was about smoking at home and parties, not in licensed locations. It also works both ways - a friend who gave up cigarettes said he now smoked a whole lot less weed too. He realised after giving up the cigarettes that most of his previous desire to smoke cannabis was actually built on top of a craving for nicotine.

I'd believe that okay, tobacco is highly addictive, I stopped smoking 14 years ago and still get cravings.

The whole mixing resin or weed with tobacco is a Northern European thing, traditionally weed is smoked on it's own in Jamaica, the southern Americas , Afghanistan, etc, as it was smuggled into Northern Europe in a Resin form it then was mixed with tobacco to role a joint. The more recent ( last 25 years) trend of high THC level weed actually has been developed in Amsterdam generally for the coffee shops and the party people. Original strains are much lower in THC. Americans do not normally mix weed with tobacco either.
 
The more recent ( last 25 years) trend of high THC level weed actually has been developed in Amsterdam generally for the coffee shops and the party people. Original strains are much lower in THC. Americans do not normally mix weed with tobacco either.

On the other hand, on the rare occasion I've indulged in Amsterdam, it's very pleasant to be offered a choice and be able to select a strain with a much lower level of THC. Imagine if pubs only sold Tenants Super.
 
On the other hand, on the rare occasion I've indulged in Amsterdam, it's very pleasant to be offered a choice and be able to select a strain with a much lower level of THC. Imagine if pubs only sold Tenants Super.
Indeed. I went to Amsterdam 20 odd years ago and a mate got some Thai weed that we smoked as a blunt, it was very pleasant without being the brain mashng experience that often comes from resin and the like.
 


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