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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XV

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wacko said:
Bit below the belt that last line. Germany played no part in creating the refugee crisis but has shown true compassion taking in more than its fair share.
About time the USA, and particularly the Republican born again bible thumping Christian states, took a million or more since they created most of refugees.
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I wasn't referring to Germany (though we could have a conversation about that if you like, but maybe another time), but to M. Barnier, who is French.
 
wacko said:
Bien sur but when you said 'EU hypocrisy' you lost that defence.
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I've had some things that I've said twisted on this forum, but that one earns a chocolate digestive.

So, while twisting is topical, your point seems to infer, or at least acknowledge, that you believe EU hypocrisy is a thing. Would you care to expand on that?
 
farfromthesun said:
Festival Of Brexit has been rebranded / renamed as "Unboxed"

FCM-ClWXIAI-UX3
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This surely has to be a spoof? A decommissioned oil rig in a disused lido in Weston-Super-Mare? Have they noticed how big oil rigs are, do you think? A DJ calling the moon for ideas on alien music? Even if that's performance art, it's a bit silly - a sort of 21st century version of Harry Corbett and Sooty.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
This surely has to be a spoof? A decommissioned oil rig in a disused lido in Weston-Super-Mare? Have they noticed how big oil rigs are, do you think? A DJ calling the moon for ideas on alien music? Even if that's performance art, it's a bit silly - a sort of 21st century version of Harry Corbett and Sooty.
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Banksy has a lot to answer for.
 
Bob Edwards said:
I've been trying to parse a positive from Brexit, fully understanding I'm not British. The only thing I can think of is that it allows for full sovereignty, with not having to follow EU regulations. And so, from a national, dare I say, jingoistic, perspective, I suppose that could be a positive.

However, everything I have read suggests that Brexit is a slow train to disaster, socially, politically, and economically. The following article explains some of the downsides (and reads as a devastating critique of Boris Johnson), but it's far from the only one: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/business/boris-johnson-shortages-britain.html

As an American whose roots come from the UK, I like to think of myself as more sensitive to UK issues than most Americans. But to me, Brexit looks like the disaster suggested in the NYT article above. Am I missing something?
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Bob Edwards said:
It isn't just the NYT . . .

https://www.politico.eu/article/a-b...ble-hurt-to-lose-single-market-boris-johnson/

Even a cursory google scholar search turns up far more negative Brexit articles than positive.

I'm hoping that the negatives are overblown, but Brexit so far seems to be a huge negative for the people of the UK.
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It isn't difficult to find articles critical of Brexit, Bob, I'm sure that you don't even need a Google scholar search to find them, a normal everyday one will do.

Dare I say that as an American you might be wary of making accusations of jingoism in the context of national sovereignty. I can't for one moment imagine the often demonstratively proud and patriotic citizens of hand-on-heart God Bless America accepting the edicts of a foreign court that held primacy over her own supreme and federal courts, nor being told that they had no right other than to accept laws written by legislators over whom they had no effective democratic mandate, nor indeed, for a country so aggressively in control of her borders, to accept unlimited and uncontrolled immigration.

I did finally jump through the various guest subscription hoops in order to read the piece, which is written, incidentally, by a well known anti-Brexit commentator. He makes several good points which are basically about Johnson making up policy on the hoof. I like the allegorical figure of the dam breaking and Johnson exclaiming 'Ah, look at all that wonderful water' etc. He (the writer) doesn't seem to quite know whether he wants higher wages or not, perhaps higher wages good, just not this way, or something. It strikes me that labour is in certain terms like any other supply and demand commodity - the greater the demand for it, the higher the price that it commands, with a follow-on that if the value of work rises, the greater the incentive to gain the skills required to do it, as well as increasing the incentive of employers to invest and innovate, and thus increase both value and productivity.

Of course this takes time, and the UK has long desperately required the investment in the education to achieve those ends. It seems that Brexit is thus bound to stimulate the requisite supply-side/structural reforms that the UK economy so desperately requires to gain value and benefit both capital and labour. It is of course a shame that this couldn't have been planned for beforehand rather than frantically fumbled for after the event, but I guess we are where we are. If this shambolic government doesn't find the intellectual focus to do it, well then the next one has about three years to find it.
 
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I aways find the comments sections of these anti (and indeed pro) Brexit articles enlightening, but this one served up a gem that lit up the damp tail end of a particularly trying day;

"I see a silver lining in this misery for Scotland. I hope they will finally vote to get out of UK and Join EU as proud independent nation."

A 'proud, independent nation' without monetary or, at some point in the future, fiscal, control over its issued currency, with its tax, social, funding, legislative, immigration and foreign policies decided in, and legally enforced by, unelected technocrats in Brussels, subject to the full weight of 64 years of the Aquis Communitaire, and with the Scottish Government reduced to arranging bus timetables and the rubbish collections.

I fully expected it to be signed by one Oxy Moron.
 
eternumviti said:
I aways find the comments sections of these anti (and indeed pro) Brexit articles enlightening, but this one served up a gem that lit up the damp tail end of a particularly trying day;

"I see a silver lining in this misery for Scotland. I hope they will finally vote to get out of UK and Join EU as proud independent nation."

A 'proud, independent nation' without monetary or, at some point in the future, fiscal, control over its issued currency, with its tax, social, funding, legislative, immigration and foreign policies decided in, and legally enforced by, unelected technocrats in Brussels, subject to the full weight of 64 years of the Aquis Communitaire, and with the Scottish Government reduced to arranging bus timetables and the rubbish collections.

I fully expected it to be signed by one Oxy Moron.
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But way better than they have now.
 
eternumviti said:
Of course this takes time, and the UK has long desperately required the investment in the education to achieve those ends. It seems that Brexit is thus bound to stimulate the requisite supply-side/structural reforms that the UK economy so desperately requires to gain value and benefit both capital and labour. It is of course a shame that this couldn't have been planned for beforehand rather than frantically fumbled for after the event, but I guess we are where we are. If this shambolic government doesn't find the intellectual focus to do it, well then the next one has about three years to find it.
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LOL have you checked with the people who will actually be paying for this imagined "stimulation & reforms"? They are tetchy enough when petrol goes up a couple of pence.

Your post is absurd, there has never been anything stopping the UK from investing or developing resilient supply and there is nothing that voting your country poorer and less significant will do to help that. Had you put some kind of honest bill of account for changes you now expect the less well off to fund, because they will be the ones who pay proportionately most, you would never have got this lunacy beyond ERG bots like yourself. Well insulated enough to indulge such fantasy.

All the "intellectual focus" on the planet does not magic away self imposed restrictions on trade and huge shortages of employable people. You speak in grandiose, high brow terms while completely ignoring the basic limitations that led to us needing to become part of something more substantial in the first place. I'd be careful of lecturing a US contributor who, like the vast majority of commentators is wondering where the beef is in something so obviously lacking anything beyond political opportunism and based on pure fantasy. Something he will be very familiar with recently.

Oh and give it a rest about laws we supposedly have no say in. You cannot name anything that a person might find visible to the naked eye even when looking it up, that's how significant ECJ intervention is in reality and when they have been involved , it's often been to the UK supplier/consumer's advantage. Immigration control was certainly not something that we had no control over. We didn't apply the rules that were already within our gift, another total red herring - emotional tripe with no substance, pretty much Brexit in a nutshell.

No surprise then that people like Bob looking at the UK are left wondering.
 
The survey is not all doom and gloom- the percentage of people who recognised that inequality had grown during the pandemic was up and this can be a good argument to beat Johnson with at the next GE as he stinks of Toff and elitism.
 
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